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all that was said on both sides,
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appears to me that perhaps the general conclusions reached will for the present suffice. Sir John Wolfe Barry proposed to report to his Board and advise with the managers and officers of the Cable Company. Meanwhile I am very glad that the resolution which has just been considered has been adopted. I feel satisfied that it will lead to the best possible results whatever course may be followed by the Company. I think that is all that I will trouble you with just at present.
ADJOURNED.
THE PACIFIC CABLE CONFERENCE.
SIXTH DAY.
Friday, July 28th, 1905, at 10.30 a.m.
THE RIGHT HONOURABLE ALFRED LYTTELTON, K.C., M.P., the Secretary of State for the Colonies, in the Chair.
PRESENT:
THE RIGHT HONOURABLE LORD JERSEY, G.C.B., G.C.M.G.
THE HONOURABLE SIR WILLIAM MULOCK, K.C.M.G., M.A., K.C. SIR SANDFORD FLEMING, K.C.M.G.
Mr. GEORGE W. JOHNSON, C.M.G., Secretary.
Sir SPENCER WALPOLE, K.C.B.
ALSO PRESENT:
The Right Honourable LORD STRATHCONA AND MOUNT ROYAL, G.C.M.G. The Honourable W. PEMBER REEVES.
The Honourable Sir HORACE TOZER, K.C.M.G.
Mr. J. W. CAWSTON.
Mr. W. H. MERCER. C.M.G.
The CHAIRMAN: It is necessary to point out that there is some repugnance between the resolution which was passed on 17th July, and the third resolution which was passed on the 21st. The former Resolution (by its fourth paragraph) contem- plated the possibility of a pooling arrangement, but the Resolution of 21st July excluded such an arrangement, and approved only an arrangement for the division of actual traffic. Paragraph 3 of the former Resolution as originally proposed read "That the Conference is of opinion that in the absence of a satisfactory pooling arrangement with the Eastern Extension Telegraph Company the Pacific Cable Board should be authorised to enter into energetic competition with the Company in Australia,” and Sir Sandford Fleming suggested what was understood to be merely a verbal amendment, by which the word "pooling" was deleted, and "for was substituted. That is not, I am afraid, a mere verbal amend- a division of traffic ment, but one which might have consequences which were not anticipated I think by those who at the time assented to it, and the suggestion that I now make would be to leave out the words "for the division of the traffic" from this paragraph, which would then read "That the Conference is of opinion that in the absence of a satisfactory arrangement with the Eastern Extension Telegraph Company the Pacific Cable Board should be authorised to enter into energetic competition with the Company in Australia," not specifying what the arrangement should be, and leaving that open to negotiation between Sir Spencer Walpole and Sir John Wolfe Barry. Of course, consequentially upon that would be the excision from the Resolution of 21st July of the second paragraph-"The conclusion of an amicable arrange- ment with the Eastern Extension Telegraph Company, by which ordinary Australian traffic should be fairly divided, and needless expense avoided" down to the words
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at present." That would leave the matter open to negotiation between the Board and the Telegraph Company, to make any arrangement which the Board considered satisfactory.
I think Sir Spencer Walpole and Sir Sandford Fleming had an interview with Sir John Wolfe Barry, and I shall be glad if Sir Spencer Walpole would report what the result of that interview was.
Sir SANDFORD FLEMING: Will you allow me to state at this stage, Sir, that I did not understand that I was asked to go there to make an arrangement about pooling; I went there to hear what he had to say, and nothing more. Pooling was certainly discussed by Sir Spencer Walpole and Sir John Wolfe Barry, but I declined to take any part in it, and gave the reason why I declined, that I was entirely opposed to pooling. And with regard to changing the Resolution of 17th July, as far as I am concerned as the representative of New Zealand, I would very much prefer to leave the third paragraph unaltered, and to amend the fourth paragraph so that it should read and that the Pacific Cable Board should not enter into any pooling arrange- ment, and that in any arrangement for the division of the traffic, the Pacific Cable should secure approximately half the Melbourne and Sydney traffic."
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The CHAIRMAN: At present will you direct your attention to the third paragraph, Sir Sandford?
Sir SANDFORD FLEMING: Yes.
The CHAIRMAN: The suggestion that I have made is to omit the words " for the division of the traffic," and to leave it open that the arrangement may proceed upon any basis which is satisfactory.
Sir Sandford FLEMING: Well, I am not unwilling that the words should be omitted.
The CHAIRMAN: Very well then, do you assent to that Sir William?
Sir WILLIAM MULOCK: I understand Sir Sandford will not consent to any pool- ing arrangement. If that is his unalterable view, it might happen that the Board on the authority of this resolution would consider themselves at liberty to enter into a pooling arrangement, and in that event it would disappoint those who were opposed to pooling. It might, therefore, be advisable, for the Conference to deter- mine for the guidance of the Board, what they were to be at liberty to do, as far as the Conference has anything to say to their action.
The CHAIRMAN: I should have thought it was reasonable that the parties should be not fettered, but that they should enter into any arrangement which they found mutually advantageous, which would attain the results which this Conference has at heart, viz., ultimately the payment of £20,000 to the Pacific Cable. It seems a pity to confine and contract the delegates in the discussion in any way. I should have thought myself that it was almost a truism or a platitude to resolve that competition should be authorised unless a satisfactory arrangement should be
come to.
Sir WILLIAM MULOCK: Would Sir Spencer Walpole tell us briefly the difference between pooling, and division of traffic.
Sir SPENCER WALPOLE: Yes, I shall be happy to do so, but I think it might be con- venient and save time if in doing so I were to repeat the substance of what had taken place between Sir Sandford Fleming, Sir John Wolfe Barry and myself. I can illus- trate the matter better in connection with that than by simply dealing with it alone: I should have to go over it again at any rate.
The CHAIRMAN: Yes.
Sir SPENCER WALPOLE: In the original interview which Sir Sandford Fleming and I had with Sir John Wolfe Barry, Sir Sandford Fleming was kind enough to I told leave the negotiations, after some preliminary statements, in my hands. Sir John Wolfe Barry that the delegates at this table had been much impressed with the falling off of our traffic at Melbourne and Sydney, which they had attributed to the opening of the Eastern Extension Telegraph Company's offices in those places, and that any arrangement which I thought was practicable between the Eastern Com- panies and ourselves must be based on the supposition that if we entered into active
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