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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

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17 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

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Sir WILLIAM MULOCK: We have been informally exchanging views with regard to the situation, and I think the view entertained by some members of the Con- ference is to the effect that if the proposed agreements that are now running in Australia are modified in the direction indicated by Lord Jersey to the Australian Government by cables, copies of which are on record here, and provided that a satis- factory arrangement be made with the Eastern Extension Telegraph Company for a division of traffic, the Board would be satisfied with an arrangement of that kind, but that failing the accomplishment of those two things the Conference would wish the Pacific Cable Board to adopt energetic action, with a view to securing for the Pacific Cable the largest possible amount of cable traffic. If that is the general conclusion of the Conference it perhaps could be expressed in the form of a resolution which has been drafted by Mr. Reeves, and is in these words:

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"That should the proposed Resolution of the Commonwealth embodying agreements with the Eastern Extension Telegraph Company be modified as requested in a message communicated to the Australian Government by Lord Jersey, then this Conference entrusts to the discretion of the Pacific Cable Board the conclusion of an amicable arrangement with the Eastern Extension Telegraph Company by which Australian traffic shall be fairly divided and needless expense avoided ·

· Provided, however, that the basis of division shall be such that approximately half the New South Wales and Victorian business shall be secured for the Pacific Cable, while that cable's share of the remaining Austra- han traffie shall not be less than at present:

'Provided also that no agreement between the Pacific Cable Board and the Eastern Extension Telegraph Company shall have more than 12 years'

currency:

Failing such arrangement the Conference considers that the Pacific Cable Board should forthwith take steps to recover its fair share of Australian traffic by all legitimate methods of business competition.”

"

Australian" does not Mr. PEMBER REEVES: I should like to explain, Sir, that include New Zealand; it means simply Australian business. Furthermore, that I in- tended to mean Australian ordinary business; and that I have also used the word "traffic" advisedly and not "traffic receipts"; which is a different thing.

The CHAIRMAN: I do not I am afraid appreciate what you mean by the difference that you suggest.

Wherein lies the difference between the traffic and the traffic receipts from this point of view?

Mr. PEMBER REEVES: The question of routing messages comes in and the number of words, you know. If it is a question merely of dividing receipts there is one con- dition of things: if it is a question of dividing business, the actual traffic, of course it is another. Perhaps Mr. Reynolds could put the thing clearer.

Mr. REYNOLDS: I think Mr. Reeves means that simply to divide equally the total receipts outside the limits of Australia would not meet the case, because the amounts that have to be paid out to other administrations differ on the Eastern route But the final unit is the number of words carried. If we and the Pacific route. carry the number of words all those adjustments settle themselves, so that the traffic, that is the number of words, is the proportion, we wish to deal with here and not the money. If we keep to the unit of traffic carried that will regulate every- thing; all the other questions will fall into their place if that is adhered to.

The SECRETARY: Would not that point be met by the phrase we used in the last resolution "net traffic receipts”?

Mr. REYNOLDS: "Net traffic receipts" covers it, but I think the word "traffic" is safer because that leaves everything open for adjustment with other Companies and A great number of people will be dragged into this other parties who are concerned. agreement, and what we wish to get in Australia is a certain fixed proportion of the to the people who traffic, leaving the questions of adjustment, that is the "pay outs

As to the actual handling of the traffic, carry that traffic, for an after settlement. the right of the public to select the route by which its messages would be carried must of course be respected.

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Mr. PEMBER REEVES: And we should certainly be in a stronger and much freer traffic receipts." position if we use the word "traffic," in my opinion, than if we use

If we use the term nett traffic receipts," we should be exposed to all sorts of inter- ference in all sorts of matters by the Eastern Extension Telegraph Company which Whether the word “ordinary" ought to be put in we desire to keep to ourselves. or not I am not clear; I think perhaps it should, because we do not propose to pool Government business, of which we have practically the monopoly, nor do we propose to pool press business, of which they largely have a monopoly, and which, of course, under their Agreement they must retain from Europe to Australia.

The CHAIRMAN: I think that really only embodies what we have previously resolved, but this may now be put I think:

"That should the proposed Resolution of the Commonwealth embodying agreements with the Eastern Extension Telegraph Company be modi- fied, as requested in the message communicated to the Australian Government by Lord Jersey, then this Conference entrusts to the dis- cretion of the Pacific Cable Board the conclusion of an amicable arrange- ment with the Eastern Extension Telegraph Company, by which ordinary Australian traffic should be fairly divided and needless expense avoided; provided, however, that the basis of division shall be such that approximately half the New South Wales and Victorian ordinary traffic shall be secured for the Pacific Cable, while that cable's share of the remaining Australian traffic shall not be less than at present: Provided also that no Agreement between the Pacific Cable Board and the Eastern Extension Telegraph Company shall have more than 12 years' currency Failing such arrangement the Conference considers the Pacific Cable Board should forthwith take steps to secure the largest possible amount of the Australian traffic by all legitimate methods of business competition."

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Mr. PEMBER REEVES: Twelve years' currency I put in, to conciliate the opposition or suspicion that would be felt in Australia and New Zealand, possibly in Canada too, to any agreement that we enter into with the Eastern Extension Tele- graph Company. They will not desire to see us tied ad infinitum by an agreement with the Company.

The CHAIRMAN: May I take it that that is agreed to?

Sir WILLIAM MULOCK: The only suggestion that I have to make would be that the recital with reference to the rescission of agreements be amplified to extend to the agreements made with all the States, and not merely with New South Wales.

After further discussion the first part of the resolution was amended so as to read:

"That provided the proposed Commonwealth Agreement be amended by expressly rescinding the Agreement with New South Wales of 16th January, 1901, and any similar agreements with other states, and by providing for it's own unconditional termination in 1913, and by inserting express provision excluding revival of any such agreements on termination of Commonwealth Agreement, this Conference entrusts to the discretion of the Pacific Cable Board, &c."

AGREED.

Sir SANDFORD FLEMING: I think this must be regarded as the proper time for me to make a brief report on the interview we had with Sir John Wolfe Barry yester- day. At the last meeting it was deemed expedient that a member of the Conference should, along with the Chairman of the Pacific Cable Board, meet the Chairman of the Eastern Extension Telegraph Company, Sir John Wolfe Barry, to discuss certain matters. It was the wish of the Conference that I should undertake the duty. Accordingly a meeting was arranged for yesterday the 20th day of July. I interview with Sir John accompanied Sir Spencer Walpole and we had an Wolfe Barry, when we discussed with him, with a degree of fulness, the matter entrusted to us. The interview lasted about an hour. It was in all respects agreeable. The whole ground was fairly gone over and unless the Conference desires me to relate

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