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islands are so alike as to justify the continuance of the system in the Island of Jamaica. I know the people are agitating and are supposed to agitate against the proceeding. I for one, as Mr. Sturge has stated, would be exceedingly sorry to see any change of the Government. (Hear, hear.) I hold that the administration of Sir John Peter Grant was of eminent service (hear, hear), and I admire and deeply honour him for the course he adopted in the island. I should be extremely sorry to see that materially altered. I should, however, I confess, like to see a good representation of the coloured people in the Council. I think that their voice ought to be heard, at least, by one gentleman, who is able to express there the feelings of the mass of the people. It is a gross anomaly that that Council should only represent the official element and the planting element; not that I think the official element is otherwise than well-disposed, eminently well-disposed to protect and govern the people in the right way. Still I think it would very much tend to appease the different classes and show an interest in the people if some representation of that class of people so extremely numerous in the country were placed in the Council; and I urge it respectfully on your Lordship.
The Rev. A. Buzacott. There are one or two points, my Lord, which have not been referred to by previous speakers, to which I will allude as briefly as possible. One is this: Sir William Grey, in a Return published by order of the House of Commons, states at the conclusion:-"It may, therefore, be said that, for immigration proper, as distinguished from colonization, nothing has been paid from the general revenue. Suppose we leave out for a moment all indirect payments, that statement is contradicted by the fact that there is a liability of at least 150,000l. now remaining unpaid. If the sources of the immigration revenue were devoted entirely to the liquidation of that amount, it would take thirty years to pay it all off; and during those thirty years there must not be a single pound spent in order to obtain more coolies, and it would take thirty years for the fund to repay itself. I would also beg your Lordship's attention to another poiut. Looking at what the estates have cost, and referring to the same Parliamentary Return, I find that immigration for 180 estates have cost in ten years 513,000/., that is something like 5,0001, per estate. Now it is a question whether these 180 estates would realize 513,0007. if sold in the market. Some of them would realize more; but a considerable majority would realize much less. That is one way of looking at the mode in which money has been expended in regard to them. I have ventured to suggest, and I do still venture to suggest, some mode of settling this rather difficult problein. I would say that, in strict justice, the planters, by their immigration funds, should pay the entire cost, and (that has been their boast all along) repay the entire 150,000l. I suppose that is not possible; and the feeling throughout Jamaica is that it is not possible; and I think I am right in saying that the planters themselves have asserted that it is not possible. Therefore, to meet the case half-way, it seems the other alternative is something like this. The introduction of labour into Jamaica should absolutely cease. That all who need foreign labour provide the same at their own private cost, subject to such rules as are required in the case of emigration from England. This would meet the demand of the peasantry. Then, for the sake of the planters, the debt now incurred on the Immigration Fund be transferred to the general revenue of the island, to be paid off as may be arranged by the Government. Provided that no extra taxation be imposed for this special purpose, and provided that the island expenditure be reduced in some way so as to meet this special liability. According to information 'received from Jamaica, from persons who have been long resident there, these two provisions could be very easily made. I think I may say that the general feeling throughout Jamaica is one of entire confidence in your Lordship as regards the settlement of this question. There has been no agitation among the coloured people, and the reason is they have such confi- dence that when these matters come to be placed in your Lordship's handls you will certainly give them a fair and just consideration. I may say, also, that that is unanimously the feeling of the Committee of the Society which is represented here to-day. I hope that this very vexatious question, which has divided class from class in Jamaica, will now be settled. It is certainly a new standpoint in the whole history of the movement that we have arrived at, and if some friendly plan can be found by which the planters can by a fair wage-and I think a fair wage I am right in saying that something like Is. Od. to 1s. 9d. would be regarded by the mass of the population as a fair wage-if some plan could be found by which a fair wage could be given by the planters on the plantations, there would be plenty of labour to meet all the demands. I hope the day will not be far distant when your Lordship will have occasion to rejoice
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that in your tenure of office you have been enabled to do a great act of justice to the 400,000 negroes in the Island of Jamaica.
Lord Carnarvon.-Well, gentlemen, I have listened with very great attention to everything that has been said, and it appears to me the statements whether they command assent or not have been very fairly, very temperately, and very reasonably expressed. I do not propose this afternoon to enter at all into the details of the very important question which you have brought before me, and for this reason, amongst others, that I am to see, probably a few days hence, another Deputation composed of gentlemen who take a somewhat different view, if not a very different view, from that which you do; and 1 should desire to have the two statements clearly before me, that I may consider the question as a whole and come to something like a reasonable and fair conclusion upon it. I fully feel the importance of the question. I feel the importance primarily as regards Jamaica, and secondly, of course, as regards other colonies, though it is always said that some of these other colonies do not stand pre- cisely upon the same footing as you do in Jamaica. I was very glad to receive the Deputation to-day, because it gave me the opportunity of having present in this room Sir Anthony Musgrave, who in a short time will go out to Jamaica to assume the Government there and to succeed Sir William Grey. I was particularly anxious- though he has had experience in the West Indies before-that he should be to-day to hear all that might pass.
present As I said, I do not propose to enter into this question, and any remarks that I might make upon a few of those topics which have been raised, must be received as quite apart from my own conclusions on the matter. I think there are one or two matters on which I am not sure that I do not quite agree with what has been said, and which I think is worth notice in passing. I was very glad to hear from so many speakers successively their opinion that the Constitution of Jamaica as now established was, on the whole, satisfactory. (Hear hear.) I am satisfied myself that it is a very vast improvement on the old Constitution, and if there be one class in the whole community to whom that change of Constitution has been a benefit I believe it is that class in whom you all are interested--the peasantry of Jamaica. Therefore, any material change in that Constitution would be, from my point of view, a very serious blow to their interests.
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One of the speakers-the last speaker but one-said he should desire to see a good representative for the coloured people in the Council. Well, that, of course, is a matter of detail on which I do not pronounce any opinion; but I think I may point this out, that the planters, on the other hand, complain very often to me of the present Constitution of the Legislative Council from this point of view; they say that they are not sufficiently represented, that they have but one or two-I think two- representatives, and that those representatives are confronted by the official members; that the official members look upon themselves as specially entrusted with the charge of all the other interests in the Island, and that consequently they, the planters, find themselves inadequately represented. I merely point that out as being the current on the other side. My own feeling is that it is the business of the official members ty consider the interests of the peasantry very closely, and without making themselves exclusively the representative of those classes nor their partizans; at all events to see that those interests do not suffer. Of course the question of the criminality which it is said is imported into the Island by these coolies, is a serious matter, and one to which I hope Sir Anthony Musgrave will give his attention as soon as he arrives out there. The real question in principle one sees plainly is this:-On the one hand it is said that there is abundance of negro labour if only fair wages are given; and, secondly, that coolie immigration is unnecessary for the due and proper cultivation of the crops of the Island. Well, of course that is a moot point. I will not say that what you have stated to-day has not great force. I have understood out of this room and in other places that whilst there is this disinclination on the part of the negroes to work in the cane fields, they do work in factories. Of course, if they receive in factories half-a- crown a-day, whereas they receive only ninepence in the fields, a certaiu explanation is afforded, no doubt, by that fact.
Moreover, what was stated by one speaker is a remarkable thing, that there are between 170,000 and 180,000 negroes who have now become small proprietors from a variety of causes, and who would not be tempted for any consideration to go to work either in the factories or in the fields. Both of these are considerations which would weigh strongly with the planter, and which he might fairly use on his side of the argument. Then, of course, there is the socond question-and a very large question it is how far it is right to apply any part of the public funds to the import of those immigrants for the sake of a particular class in the community? Well, I think, as I