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country, and the employment of the taxes of the people to bring them in, there is a strong objection to the continuance of the system; and if anything could be done for the purpose of bringing the system to an end, I think that the very largest margin should be left in order to obtain such a desirable result.

Mr. Robert Fauntleroy, J.P.-I think that a great deal of what has been said by this gentleman just now I can endorse. I have sat once a week, and sometimes twice a week, to hear cases in Jamaica, and there are usually five to one, and even ten to one, of coolies in disgrace as compared to the Creole race, who are usually very quiet. It is only at St. Thomas that much trouble is experienced, and it arises from the stoppage of wages at the pay-tables, and keeping back, perhaps, two weeks'

wages in order to insure their coming back to work on the Monday. It is as easy as possible to get people there. Of their education only one in thirty-two can read and write. 'I have found the Creoles a very decent set of people; and it was only through finding something said against thera the other day. that I sat down in a reading-room at Whit- stable and wrote something about it to the "Times," which has brought me forty or fifty replies.

The black people are well and good, they are always inclined to go to people who pay them honestly. The black people are in this state in St. Thomas and Portland, that if they had any one, as in the old days, to fight with and protect them at once, instead of waiting one, two, or four months for any redress, they would have more courage to go on to the estates to work. But I have known them come up to the Court-House in droves of twenty or thirty at a time and complain that "all wages are stopped," the Magistrates have asked "why?" and the answer has been “because we will not consent to twopence or threepence a day reduction." "Well," we have said, they must pay wages up to Friday, and you can begin the new week as you like," and the answer is, "Yes, but they keep back two weeks' wages. Then there is a great deal to do, ugly words are exchanged, and the police have to be called out, and sometimes there is great commotion.

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There have been four or five of such scenes during my experience of nine years, simply from overbearing conduct, whereas if there was a Stipendiary Magistrate to whom the blacks could appeal it would be a more satisfactory arrangement. If the coolies apply they are amply protected. In sickness or health they have only to run to their agent, and then they get more than justice in some cases. I think the poor Creole is often ill-used by Government, for he has no protection. The coolie is over- protected, and costs a great deal more than these gentlemen have said in their Address to-day. I have cast it up that the cost of each coolie is 321. Mr. Rushworth, who is prevented from attending here to-day, he is a Magistrate on the island, made it 561. 148. 6d. each last July. I have his very words here. He said on the 19th May, 1876, "It may be assumed that the present cost of coolie labour is 561. 148. 64d." At present this charge was borne in the following proportions:-by the employer, 18.; on the immigration fund, 311. 88. 101d.; Ly the general revenue, 71. 5s. 81d. That is the cost of each coolie-man, woman, and child. And the average pay upon the estates, as have ascertained it from talking to dozens of overseers, is about 92. a day all the year round, that is, about 101. per annum.

It would be far better, my Lord, if it is a question of giving it up, to give them a bounty upon the black people whom they employ; and they, themselves, have said that if they had 200 head of black people to all of whom they could not pay 9d. a-day, it was better to employ a fewer number at 18. 5d. a-day than pay 561. odd for these poor sickly creatures, the coolies. I have known sixty die in a short time on an estate two miles from my place. It is horrible how they die off; they have to stand up to their knees in water often. Out of 16,000, 4,627 had died, and whereas only one in five returned to his country when I was in Jamaica, more than one in four died. I shall do myself the honour to send some of these papers for the perusal of some of you gentlemen; they have taken me some time to compile, and I am very anxious that something should be done, for there is a very unpleasant feeling in the country on this subject.

The Rev. E. Hewitt.-Would your Lordship permit me to add one fact, and a very important one. In the parish of Trelawney, one of the largest sugar-producing estates in the island, the production of sugar has kept up to the present average for the last twenty years, and there are hardly any coolies whatever employed in that parish. In one other parish I know one estate where the people were not driven off in the manner I referred to just now, and on that estate they are living now- Cobb's estate and it is one of the most flourishing estates known to the parish of Hamilton.

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Dr. Underhill. I will make but a very few observations. My remarks will apply almost entirely to the character of immigration itself. Your Lordship is perfectly aware that of the number of people in Jamaica at least 400,000 are black people; about 80,000 born and 15,000 white, in the population of Jamaica. Obviously the interest of the island lies with the great majority, and the question comes up, should these people be sacrificed for the few, whatever may be the advantages the few derive? The general statement is that these black people are very idle, will not work, and are indisposed to afford the labour to the white population which the latter require. I have studied the question, when in Jamaica, very closely, and have come to this con- clusion very carefully. I have no particular favouritism for the black people, I know their faults, and am quite able to conceive the difficulties under which planters may labour in obtaining their work. The two things stand out, and stand out still as pre- eminently true, that they are a very docile people, casily managed, whenever they are managed fairly, and they will work for a fair day's wage. The whole question turns on that last point, the difference between the people and the planters as to what is a fair day's wage.

If the planter gives the negro what to the latter is a fair day's wage, I am bound to say he will obtain an abundance of labour. A negro on the average I have ascertained, can earn on his own plot of ground from 2s. to 2s. 6d. a day. Now, it is obvious, on the common sense principle, that these people will not go to work on estates at 9d, and 1s. per day. I remember a well-known planter, a gentleman of high position in the Island, who took me over his estate and explained all its arrangements and its financial condition to me, and expressed wonder that he could get plenty of black people to work in the mill, but not in the field. I asked him simply and quietly what were the wages in the mill. "Well," he said, "they will earn from 2s. 6d. to 3s. 6d. a day." I said directly, "Can you not see the reason why they will not go to the field; you pay them a fair wage in the mill, and refuse it in the field." He was, in fact, paying a fair wage in the mill, but refusing to pay a fair wage in the field.

Then, my Lord, there is another reason for this, which is operating very strongly at this day, and which had its origin in the period of apprenticeship for reasons I need not mention. The planters assembled in all their districts, and laid down certain tables deciding what a day's work should be-what a task should be. Thus, for example, a task of labour was sometimes regarded as filling 50 holes of sugar in bags a' day; they raised that to 60, 70, or 80, according to the circumstances of the parish. This gave the negro a standard of labour which he was not slow to use, and it became obvious that in a free condition the negro would work better and earn a great deal more, so that it is a very common thing for a negro to say he does one task or two tasks a day. The planters reckon that he should be paid for the amount of one task, and that task may be a moderate one, and one that could be finished by the middle of the day by a good labourer. But this has given a standard of wage which the negro is not slow to appreciate. Their ideas as to a day's wage cannot, therefore, easily be made to correspond with the idea of the planter. But my observation went to this- that, where the planter treated them fairly and paid a fair day's wage, no difficulty about wages occurred.

The question, of course, with the planter, in reference to giving a wage of á certain amount to his labourer, is-can he afford to produce sugar which will pay to sell in this country? And I ask the question whether the planter is to be encouraged to grow an article which cannot be grown at a fair price? If he is to have a bounty to produce sugar, what the Government of Jamaica should do would be to give a bounty, as they are doing in France at this moment to their planters. It seems to me the position is the same now, and it appears to me you are giving a bounty to produce sugar there as they are in France. And it is unfair to the population, which is thus thrust out from what I regard as being its lawful right to labour on the land where they are born, and where God in His high Providence has placed them. I have no particular affection for the negro, but I ask for him that he be dealt as fairly by as the labourers of this or any other land; and this is not the case unquestionably in this coolie traffic.

My only other word is, that I, personally, have not felt that objection to the coolie traffic us some have. When I was in Trinidad I saw it there under very favourable conditions. I am not aware that those conditions have altered of late years, but because it has been a success in the Island of Trinidad, it does not follow that it is the same success in Jamaica, as the circumstances of the two islands are very different, and I am afraid, from what I have heard, that the condition of the coolie is a different thing in Jamaica from what it has been in the Island of Trinidad. I am afraid we cannot go from one to the other, nor am I disposed to think that the

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