PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
Reference :-
C.O. 882
5 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH—NOT TO
Mr. W. E.
Maxwell,
C.M.G.
5 July 1893.
6
COLONIAL CURRENCY COMMITTEE:
157. Singapore takes their sugar and spices, but it does not send back anything ?—Oh, I think there is very considerable ———
I
138. I thought it was a three-corner trade. thought it wasettled by England probably sending goods to Java and the Straits paying England in tio ? -I really am not in a position to say very much about the course of trade.
159. (Mr. Currie.) There is an Association in London, is there not, called the Straits Settlements Association ?--Yes.
100. Have you had any opportunity of ascertaining what the views of those gentlemen are ?—I attended a meeting a few days ago. When they were going to hold a meeting on this subject, they were good enough to ask me to be present. I hoped then to have had the opportunity of hearing the exposition or sound views, but the meeting was hopelessly divided, and nobody seemed to be really in a position to put any proposal before the meeting.
161. There was no initiative of any kind ?—No; one gentleman, not because he really believed in what he was proposing, but because he wished to invite dis- cumion, moved that the Straits Settlements Association should address the Colonial Office, and ask that the Straits Settlements should be included with India in the change that has just been brought about; that is to say, that the currency of India should be adopted, and that we should have a rupee at is. 4d. This was seconded, and there was a certain amount of dis- cussion. Then a gentleman on the other side, Mr. Adamson, of Gilfillan, Wood, and Company, read a memorandum that he had prepared on this subject, combatting this idea of the rupee. He has been good enough to send me a nopy of his memorandum.
162. But was the general idea of the meeting that some change was necessary, or to let things remain as they were ?--The general idea was to let things remain as they are; that the association themselves should take no action.
163. (Mr. Meade.) Has there been any complaint on the part of the mercantile community as regards the full of silver? Have they complained at all beyond the fact that they have to take cognisance of the rise or fall of silver in their arrangements ?— Their complaint, I think, is that English capital is shut out, that as long as silver is liable to fall, so long will investors in England decline to send their money oot to the Straits Settlements to embark in local enterprise. And they also complain, I think, that their property in the Straits line deteriorated in value. 164. But as regards the amount of trade between Singapore and Chins on the one hand and Siam and Java, they do not complain ?—Not in any way.
165. (Mr. Currie.) Have you the latest quotations in exchange from Hong Kong or the Straits Settle- ments in London ?—I have not.
166. They must have fluctuated rather marvellously the last few days, I think, considering that silver went from 3nd, to 34d. In a few hours. Did they complain of that ?—I should think they certainly would. The collar was down to 2, 4d, the other day; it is back to 2. 7d.
107. (Mr. Fairfield.) 28. 04d. was the Hong Kong rate this morning ?-Possibly; but, going back for moment, I desire to observe that what I said about the seignorage just now was based upon this: A merchant writing to me, said, “ In reality the Mexican dollar-is, in "this respect, the cheapest coin in the world. The price "for bar silver yesterday was the same as for dollars. “The latter are generally sold here at their melting
* down value "
168. (Mr. Currie.) They are 14d. difference; but There is the seignorage of 4 per cent. in Mexico ?—In Mexico. I was not aware..
169. (Lord Farrer.) What you gathered from this meeting the other day was that there is no decided opinion at present ?—That there is no decided opinion at present Some men are anxious to see a gold efandred, and either a rupee or a British dollar pro- bably bearing some fixed relation to the rupee in
circulation. Others are absolutely afraid of any move- ment of the sort.
170. Are they afraid of its interrupting or damaging the trade between the Straits Settlements and China? -No, I think they are afraid of damaging the
pro. ducer, the tin-miner, in the Malay Straits.
171. The exporter from the Straits Settlements ?--- Yes; they may that the tin industry has been enor- mously stimulated by the fall in silver, and the export of tin has risen enormously in the last few years, mainly owing to that fact.
172. That is what they think ?—That is what they think.
173. But they do not care so much about fluctus. tions in exchange with the countries with which they trade as about the lowering of the value of their own currency for the purpose of stimulating exports?—I think the most far seeing among them take the Chinese miner into consideration, and see that it is most im- portant to the Colony that that industry should prosper, that the tin industry should prosper. Others only see their own material advantage, and are anxious to see a gold standard because they have dividends to receive in London from local banks, or docks, or enterprises of that sort which would get a great advantage by being able to remit their dividends home' without being liable to fluctuation.
174. (Mr. Meade.) There is no general consensus of opinion which would warrant any attempt at legis- lation at the present moment ?—None at all.
178. (Lord Farrer.) Do you know if there are any statistics which would show any relation between the production and manufacture of tin and the fall in the value of silver ?-No; I do not suppose that any statistics have been prepared. I should
that they easily could be prepared. It would be easy to my, for instance, what the increased output of tin has been.
176. Year by year ?-Year by year.
say
177. Compared with the full in the value of silver? Yes.
178. And when there has been a rise in the value of silver, has there been a check to the tin industry ?-I am not prepared to quote any particular date at which the price of silver fell and the price of tin.
179. No, I was asking the converse; when the price of silver ruse two years ago, did that check the export of tin ?—I should say that it probably did.
180. But you have not any figures -No; but the moment the price of tin falls certain mines are bound to stop. When the prices are very good the Chinese can work poor mines that do not produce very much; but when the prices are good they can afford to work thom. When the price of tin falls they are bound to close a certain number of mines,
181. (Mr. Courtney.) It takes a little time to make a change ?—Yes.
182. (Mr. Fairfield.) The price of tin is greatly Affected from time to time by combinations in the tin market here, is it not?—Yes. It was greatly affected a few years ago by transactions in Paris-I think it was artificially stimulated for a long time.
183. (Lord Farrer.) Then I gather from you that, so far as you know at present, the feeling among persons who have to send money home to this country in rather in favour of a gok! standard ?—That is so.
184. The feeling of those whohave to export produce from the Straits Settlements is in favour of keeping the silver standard us it is ?--Yes, that is so.
Meu see, of
course, that the Straits Settlements are only part of a very large silver-using area, that they are practically within the Chinese dollar-using area, and that it would be very difficult to make the Chinese in the Straits, any more than the Chinese in China, use anything but a silver standard.
185. And further, that it is probably too early days to form any decided opinion upon the question of this great change ?-That certainly is my own opinion} and from the hesitation which I remarked the other day at this meeting I should say that none of those prozent are really prepared to strongly recommend any change.
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.
The proposal with regard to the rupee which was put before the meeting, and which was not carried, was really put forward tentatively with the object of eliciting expressions of opinion.
186. (Mr. Currie.) Was there not rather an idea that in adopting any token coin a dollar would be lem objectionable than a rupee ?—Yes, that certainly was the opinion.
187. Because the natives of the Straits Settlements are accustomed to deal in dollars --That is so.
188. Would it not be wiser for them to wait and see the success of the late Indian experiment before plunging into anything now ?-Personally I should
think so.
189. (Sir R. Walby.) I suppose the British investor would like the standard changed because it would pay him better; but the wish is confined really to the British investor; he very naturally wants better dividends?—Yes; but those interested in the colony would like to see English money coming out for investment.
190. Of course that is another thing?—And those who have fixed payments to meet in London would like to remit home at a good rate.
191. (Lord Farrer.) At this meeting that you wereat, was the contingency of the American Govern- ment repealing the Sherman Act taken into considera tion ?—I think it was generally known. I think it was present to the minds of those who spoke, but I do not think it was remarked upon particularly.
192. (Mr. Courtney.) That would not necessarily
affect the Merican dollar. That action would not affect the action of the Mexican Government in coin- ing dollars ?—No, I suppose not at all.
193. At present the Mexican dollar is legal tender in the Straits ?--Yes, that is so.
194. And the Japanese yen also?-The Japanese yen also.
195. And they are absolutely at par of one another? -Yes.
196. Although they are issued under different con- ditions ?-Yes, and by different Governments. I believe the Japanese Government really coins the yen nt a loss. That, I think, was stated in some corre- spondence we had a few years ago with regard to a
7
Mr. W. E. Maxwell, C.M.G.
British dollar. I think the Master of the Mint in Japan made that statement, and said that what paid them was the subsidiary silver coinage.
197-8. The Mexican Government, as we understand, freely coins silver into dollars subject to the seignorage of 4 per cent. ?—So I believe.
199. And raw silver and dollars are practically nearly the same value in the Straits 7-Yes; and in London. Mr. Adamson, writing to me yesterday, Bays:-"The Mexican dollar is, in this respect, the "cheapest ooin in the world."
200. It may be a penny difference from time to time, but the divergence is not greater than that—ld. difference per ounce ?-No. I always understood in China it passed practically at melting down value; that the dollar was only looked upon as silver,
201. The Japanese Government, as I understand, coins a limited number of yens -I do not really
know.
202. You do not know that the Japanese Govern- ment tries to give the yen a token value in relation to gold ?—I do not.
208. (Mr. Currie.) The Japanese Government buys silver in the London market-it produces no silver- and coins it with our Hong Kong machinery into yens?—Yes.
204. (Mr. Courtney.) But if the Japanese Govern- ment has tried to give nominal value-token value-to the yen, it has not succeeded so far as its value in the I do not think they could do so; the Chinese would Straits Settlements are concerned?—No, certainly not. not accept the yen in that way,
205. How did these gentlemen who talked of having a token dollar in the Straits think that could be brought about? They thought it could be brought about by the British Government entering upon a new coinage and sending it out to the Straits, and they were absolutely ignorant of what had been done in Hong Kong in 1849, I think it was.
206. (Sir R. Welby.) You mean when Hong Kong had a mint in the 60s 7-No; when the Hong Kong Government proposed a gold standard-in fact, English coinage, but the Chinese insisted upon dollars, and nothing but dollars.
The witness withdrew,
Sir JAMES RUSSELL called in and examined.
207._(Chairman.) You have filled various offices at Houg Kong?-Yes.
208. Your last office was that of Chief Justice 7- Yes.
209. You are well acquainted with the currency of Hong Kong? Yes.
210. That is, as we are informed, the Mexican dollar?—Yes.
211. With what places does Hong Kong chiefly trale P-With reference to China?
212. Or generally; largely with China?-Largely with China with everywhere indeed. The trade with Hong Kong 18 with America and Australia, and with all the Phillippine Islands, indeed everywhere in the far East, with England a great deal with India and Europe.
213. And with the Straits Settlements ?—And with the Straits Settlements, you.
214. Can you tell us at all the proportion of the trade of Hong Kong with silver-using countries to thoss on gold standard? Of course nearly everything that is shipped for Chins comes to Hong Kong in
the first instance; it is a sort of depót, and trade passes through it to the different ports in China, and also to Japan. And then there is a constant communi- cation with Australia, and there is a great deal of trade with India in opium and yarn.
215. And the cotton yarn ?—And the cotton yarn and all that class of goods comes to Hong Kong iã the first instance. Sometimes such goods are left there, and then sent on to any port in China as it is wanted. 216. Of course, in its trade with any countries on affected by the silver market ?—Yes. the gold standard its exchange has hitherto been
217. As regards India hitherto whatever effect the silvor price has had, it has had that effect equally on both countries ?-Yes.
218. So that hereafter as regards India, Hong Kong would be subject to the same oxchange divergencies owing to changes in the price of silver as have existed hitherto in its trade with gold-using countries ?——— Exactly.
219. Did the Indian trade form a large proportion of the Hong Kong trade?—Yes, thence with China; you could hardly in strictness call it trade with Hong Kong
A 4
5 July 1893.
Sir J. Russell.
* July 1893,