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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

سلسلنا

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C.O. 882

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ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

Mr. W. E.

Marwell, C.M.G.

5 July 1893.

COLONIAL CURRENCY COMMITTEE:

88. (Mr. Meade.) 12,500 chests ? A great quantity of that is re-exported.

89. That is what arrives ?—Yes, but this is Patna opium.

90. Are those figures only Benares ?-Those figures are only Benares. Of Patna opium Singapore imports 307 chests, value 158,800 dollars.

91. (Sir R. Welby.) Does it give the re-export -Then Turkey 131 chests, value 95,565 dollars; Malwus opium, one chest, value 260 dollars. That hau come down from Hong Kong. Then there

in the export of opium; but these figures are very misleading as to the re-exports, because there being three settlements, Singapore, Penang, and Maiseen, it is almost impossible to ray whether the opium has gone to foreign countries, or whether it has simply gone from one settlement to another.

92. But what are the figures of re-exports as put down? - Export Singapore, 6,779 chests, value 3,435,318 dollars.

93. (Mr. Currie.) That in one half of the whole ?→→ That applies to native states of Siam probably.

94. (Sir R. Welby.) That, however, would not affect the farm, I suppose, because the farmer if he kends to Siam, sells his opium there?-It would not affect the farmer at all. This is the re-export in the shape of raw opium; his monopoly is the nianufactured opium.-Penang, 3,297 chests, value 1,520,083 dollars; Malacca, 28 chests, value 12,222 dollars-that is Benares opium.

93. But then I do not quite follow; you are giving the number of chests, and I was trying to follow them in their revenue result. I gather that we have nothing to judge what the revenue is from the number of chests? -No; the import and the export figures include the whole trade of opium between the Straits Settlements and adjoining countries; it is no guide as to the local consumption.

90. Yon were distinguishing just now between raw opium and manufactured; I suppose, the figures that you are reading now include raw and manu factured?—No, this is all raw, but some of it is inanufactured for consumption in the place, some of it is re-exported in its raw state.

97. (Mr. Courtney.) The opium is finally con sumed by these labourers ?—Yes, they are numerically the largest consumers.

98. That is the bulk of the consumption?—Yes. 09. Is the price of a pipe of opium practically as steady as the price of a glass of beer ?—I should think it is under one contract. The contractor is bound by Government not to exceed a certain maximum; the price of retail opium will hardly vary during his currency of the firm.

100. I am not sponking of the price of retail opium to the person who distributes it again, but the price to the actual smoker?—I do not suppose it varies perceptibly.

101. But it might vary at the termination of contract? Yes,

102. Do you think It does?—I could not say without referring to the past contracts, and seeing what is the maximum that has been inserted in each; I do not think that it has varied very much of late yeart.

108. The farmer takes a contract for three or four years, and his profit depends largely upon whether the price of opium goes down or up in the interval ?— That is so he certainly would be prejudicially affected if the price of opium in Judia went up.

104. (Mr Fairfield.) Does it not also to a certain extent depend en the amount of immigration into the colony during the continuance of the farm and the consequent number of people who smoke ?-Certainly, any stimulus given to the mining industry which brings down a number of additional labourers would swell the farmer's profita.

103. (Mr. Courtney.) It is a function of two things : the cost to the smoker and the profit on each traus- acțios, and the latter depends on the price going down or up?—Yes.

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106. The price, I suppose, is quoted in dollars in Singapore ?—Yes.

107. Is it apprehended by you that the price in dollars must go up if the rupee gets a higher value ?— If the Indian Government expects to receive per chest the same number of rupees that they did before, the price must go up in the Straits Settlementa.

108. If the Government expects and it ?-And

gets gets it.

109. Is there any reason to suppose that the Indian Government may not get it? That is what I want very much to know; so much depends upon it; the whole question depends upon that; if the price remains what it was before in dollars, then there is no appre- hension at all.

110. If the ruling factor is the price of a pipe of opium, the rupee price must go down if the consump- tion is to be maintained ?—Yes.

111. If, on the other hand, the rupes price goes up, and that is the ruling factor, then, you say, the price of a

pipe of opium must go up and wages must go up? Yes, that is so.

112. But which is the ruling factor; where do you get to bed rock -It must be a struggle between China and India, and Chins must have opium, and it remains to be seen whether she will be prepared to pay the enhanced price. The indication rather is now that the enhanced price will not be paid.

113. Looking back upon past experience the thing opium in rupees, but the price of opium as consumed which has been steady has not been the price of by the smoker? The price of opium in rupees has varied considerably ?—Yes.

114. But the price of opium as consumed by the smoker has not varied considerably?—I do not suppose it has varied very much, But then the farmer can meet the difficulty very often by adulteration. He can add a little more molasses in making the prepared drug and secure himself from lows in that way.

115. Just as the price of a pot of beer is the same, but the beer is made weaker or stronger according to the ruling price of malt ?—That might be 20.

116. (Mr. Currie.) Has it not rather been assumed in these questions that the price of opium has always opium has varied from 1,000 to 1,350 rupées per been a steady price; are you aware that the price of obest ?—I know that it has varied very much.

117. Is any possible difference in price owing to exchange likely to cause a fluctuation like that from originally tenders for the farm tenders for it knowing 1,000 to 1,300 rupees a chest?-The farmer when he that the prices vary; he allows for that when he tenders for the farm. But the action of the Indian Government in raising the value of the rupes would ruise both the minimum and the maximum-would raise the 1,000 rupes price and the 1,300 rupes price very much.

118. (Mr. Courtney.) The variation hitherto has arisen from the reasons and the crop ?—And the demand in China.

119. It depends nltimately upon the seasons and the crop?—Yes; I suppose it does.

120. This introduces a new factor.

The variation

from exchange introduces a new factor ?-Certainly.

121. Does the labourer urk himself what are the peculiar causes which bare canged the variation in price ?h, nertainly not, The labourer knows nothing of that, sir.

122. (Mr. Currie.) You did not say authoritatively whether the price to the smoker varies ?—I cannot say authoritatively without reference to figures how much it has varied; but I do not suppose it has varied much.

123. Well, the quantity that a man consumes each time in about as big as a pea, is it not ?—Yes; it is something quite small.

124. (Sir R. Welby.) I thought I gathered you anid that at the close of a farm there was probably a change of price to the smoker ?—That would be the period when it would be liable to charge,

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.

125. You do not know whether it actually did change? There is so much competition between farmers sometimes that a man, in order to get a farm, will offer the Government a high price which he could only afford to pay by raising the price of opium a little to the consumer, and the tendency certainly has been gradually to raise the price of manufactured opium.

126. Therefore, suppose you could go over a period of ten or twelve years, or something of that kind, you would find a difference in the price of the pipe?--- Certainly; I think if we were to compare the prices of the present day with the prices of ten or twenty years ago the price of a pipe of opium would be distinctly higher than it was. But I am speaking without having referred to authorities.

127. (Lord Farrer.) The value of silver has fallen, has it not, on the whole, in the world's market ?— Certainly.

128. The value, therefore, of the dollars imported into the Straits Settlements must have fallen ?-That is 80.

129. Can you trace any effect on prices arising from that ?--I think that wages have gone up and the articles of European manufacture bave risen in value very much. All European stores have risen in value. 130. I was referring to the case of opium particu- larly. Has the price of opium gone up at all, or has it remained steady? That has remained steady, I fancy, because it has been paid for in silver always, India and China and the Straits all being silver-using countries.

131. How are the Straits Settlements supplied with silver? Can any one import any quantity of dollars that he pleases?—Yes; they are supplied principally through the banks; the banks are the largest im porters.

132. And they import it if they find it profitable to do so?-Yes,

133. If there is a sale for it ?--Yoe; the Mexican dollar is imported practically at the price of silver.

134. At the price of silver ?-There is practically no seigniorage, I think, on Maxican dollars.”

136. And the Government have nothing to do with issuing them ?-Nothing whatever.

136. There is no duty whatever on silver in the Straits Settlements ?-None at all.

137. And perfect freedom of importation ?-Perfect freedom of importation. Consequently the silver is imported exactly as it is wanted -That is eo,

138. And the natural effect would be, would it not, that if silver became more accessible, and cheaper, and cost less to produce, there would be a larger amount of silver dollars imported and prices measured in silver would go up that would be what you would naturally expect, would you not ?-As I understand, silver in the Straits is imported as it is wanted, not only from Europe, but also from China. The banks there all have branches at various points in the East, and if they are in want of silver at one place the telegraph is put in motion, sud a supply goes from one bank to another.

139. And if silver gets cheaper, then prices measured in silver ought to rise, ought they not?— It must be so. If silver gets cheaper I suppose everything goes up in the Straits Settlements; wnger first of all, and almost everything.

140. (Mr. Fairfield.) I believe it is the case that an article produced by natives does not follow the fall in silver; ite price does not rise in proportion ?—No. I believe that, curiously enough, since the nation of the Indian Government was made known the other day, that there has been a fall in the price of tin; but I do not understand that that was in any way really due to the fall in silver; I think it was due to some movement in the American market.

141. Have wagoa gone up in proportion to the fall in silver of late yours-the wages of coolies, for instance-do you know ?—I could not say that they live in the last five or 10 years; but in the last 50 or 60 years they have doubled.

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Mr W. E. Marosi, C.M.G.

142. (Lord Farrer.) Wages—have they doubled? Yes. They have doubled in the last 50 or 60 years certainly.

142. Then it might happen, might it not, with respect to this opium, that if the effect of the Government's doings in England and America were very largely to lower the price of silver that the price of opium in the Straits Settlements might rise very considerably without the natives having really to pay any more for it ?--Quita so, because wages would rise; Do doubt, that might be so.

144. Supposing that to be so—I am only putting it as a hypothetical case-in that case it would be possible for the Government to get a larger nominal revenge out of the silver which would really only be of the same value as the present revenue ?-Yes, if it worked out in that way, but any rise in wages would be slow and gradual. 145. Quite so; the difficulty in these things is that all prices do not rise at once?-Exactly. The effect on opium would be felt at once; but a rise in prices, a gradual rise in wages, might be spread over several years.

146, The labourer might have to pay more for his opium at once ?-And that would only be cor- rected gradually.

147. And his wages might not rise at the same rate or in the same proportion?—Yes, quite su

148. (Sir R. Welby.) What is the chief article of consumption.Is rice the chief article of food ?--Yes, rice is the principal article of food. That is another matter which will be affected by this.

149. Do you happen to know whether the rice has gone up since the fall in the value of silver ?—— I have not seen the quotations, but I should assume that Rangoon rice would certainly go up, and that the consequence would be that the Slam trade would be stimulated.

150. I meant in the past. We have only got 18 or 19 years' experience since silver began to fall, Do you know whether Siam rice has perceptibly increase in price ?I really could not my without referring to market rates.

151. It is not a matter of notoriety, I mean, that it has risen ?-It is certainly dearer than it was, rise. I was looking into figures in regard to rice not no very long ago. But then there are so many factors. Rice is sold now to the natives so much cleaner than jt was.

It is cleaned in mills in Rangoon, and sent down almost fit for consumption, whereas in former days it required a lot of cleaning on the spot.

152, (Lord Farrer.) Do you know whether any inconvenience has been experienced in consequence of the variations in exchange in the trade between the Straits Settlements and the Dutch Colonies ?—No, I think not,

153. The exchange has been stable, you say, in the trade between the Straits Settlements and China, and between the Straits Settlements and some other silver country that you mentioned, and it has been and the Dutch Colonies ?What I meant to convey unstable in the trade between the Straits Settlements

was this, that, as regards trade with India and China, beth purely silver-using countries, the exchange between the rupee and the dollar has not, I suppose, varied very much.

154. No, it has been stable 7-And in China, of course, the coinage is the same; the Mexican dollar both in the Straits and in China. In Java, where there is a gold standard, there must be variation as the Mexican dollar rises and falls in the Straits.

155. Do you know if that has caused practical inconvenience ?—No, I do not suppose it has, because the merchant draws his bill at the time he sells bis goods, and he gets the rate from the bank at once.

156. (Mr. Fairfield.) I believe it is rather a one-sided trade, is it not Singapore gets geoda from Java, but does not send much in return, it pays in money or in bills ?--Yen, I should say that is probably the case.

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5 July 1893.