Page 82 of 95
156
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
adequate information in my speech. I admit my mistake because it does not appear to me that Members have not really read the thick document. If Members had read that document, I am sure they would have understood the issue better. There are now 4 400 IHLs and in the past twelve months, a thousand were surrendered to us, about five hundred were offered fixed pitches or stalls in markets, five hundred and sixty licensees received ex-gratia payment. So if we go by that rate, of the 4 400 IHLs, about 2 000 would take the ex-gratia payment, 2 000 odd will probably go into the markets or take up fixed pitches. If IHL holders are willing to participate in restricted ballots, only 1 000 IHLs are left since there are 1 050 stalls reserved for them. So I think your decision and support are needed to solve the problem. If we pass the original motion today, it does not mean that the Markets and Street Traders Select Committee will not be able to further deliberate the issue and try to increase the ex-gratia payment. But if we further defer the issue, this is really an irresponsible attitude.
MR. HILTON CHEONG-LEEN said (in English):—Mr. Chairman, as Chairman of the Markets and Street Traders Select Committee, I would just like to make a few short observations. The original motion if it were passed at today's Council meeting, would make it incumbent on the Council and the Urban Services Department to take all effective measures to eliminate IHLs within three years, that is by 1993. Briefly, the present position is that at the beginning of 1990 there were 5 150 itinerant hawker licensees. Between January and the end of November this year, over 900 or 18% of the total opted either for an ex-gratia payment of $6,000 and surrender of their licences, or they opted for fixed pitch stalls or mini-stalls in markets. Currently there are about 4 400 itinerant hawker licensees, of whom about half are over 60 years of age. While the reduction scheme since the beginning of this year has been reasonably successful, it could be difficult to achieve the same pace of reduction on the existing arrangements over the next three years. The existing arrangements mean the option of ex-gratia payment and surrender their licences, option for fixed pitch stalls and mini-stall markets. The Council will be faced with the practical and serious problem of finding and creating more fixed pitches and market stalls for those licensees who will not opt for ex-gratia payment. This aspect has to be carefully examined by the Council and the Urban Services Department. Furthermore, the legal aspect of either ceasing renewal of IHLs or amending the existing law to delete this category of licence and that all such licences are not to be renewed in three years' time, will have to be carefully looked into by the Council and the Urban Services Department. So, in other words, whether the original motion will be passed, or the amended motion, the whole matter would have to go back to the Markets and Street Traders Select Committee to study in very great detail together with the Department.
CHAIRMAN (in English):—Apart from the proposal of this motion, would I remind you again that the motion is not an amended one, it is a new motion. It says that the matter be referred to the Markets and Street Traders Select Committee.
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
157
Committee. The proposer may exercise his right of reply. Before calling him to do so, does any Member who has not already spoken wish to speak?
MR. JASON K.Y. YUEN (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, I have heard the views of many Councillors and as a new Councillor, I would like to give the following comments. We have forty Councillors in this Council and in the Markets and Street Traders Select Committee, there are about twenty. If we want other Members today without adequate information to vote on either of the two motions, I would have to abstain because I think this is a very important issue. Without adequate information, I don't think I can make a sound decision. I don't know whether this will be taken as a new motion, but I would like to make the following request. Could we possibly defer this motion and then have a summary of information for all Councillors and then discuss the issue and vote at the Standing Committee. I think it would be a more feasible and practical method as new Councillors would not prejudice and be able to rely on information to make the right decision.
CHAIRMAN (in English):—Are you making a motion "That the motion be deferred."? Because you have not really categorically stated that you are but you did not make it absolute. As I understand what has been said up to now, the motion which is on the table now is being referred back to the Markets and Street Traders Select Committee. You have heard from the Chairman of that Select Committee. If the original motion were to be superseded, the second motion shall likewise be referred to the Markets and Street Traders Select Committee of which I would like to make some advice, it is a proper place for any further consideration before it goes to any Standing Committee meeting. So may I suggest that you retract your suggestion of making a third motion, and leave the second motion on the table to be voted on when everybody has finished his speaking. Do you agree, Jason?
MR. JASON K. Y. YUEN (in English):—Yes, Mr. Chairman.
MR. JOSEPH Y. S. CHAN (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, I am not against solving the problem of IHL but I am against setting a time limit and making it mandatory. That is the reason why it should be referred back to the Markets and Street Traders Select Committee for detailed discussion. Members who have been in the Council for a couple of years, of course, are aware of the Report and the policies. However, the representative members appointed by the district boards are not very familiar with the in-depth policies and procedures. We should only make a decision when adequate information is given. By doing so, it is fair and responsible for them to take the decision without any bias. It is a fact that the Markets and Street Traders Select Committee had discussed the issue but no mention was made to solve the problem by mandatory elimination within three years. I have always participated in the Markets and Street Traders Select Committee and I also participated in the preparation of the document. I have also chaired meetings of the Markets and Street Traders Review
Page 82 of 95