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DR. CHAM (in English):—Mr. Chairman, with the expert statistics from Mr. SULKE that the rat population to human population is 6:1, we have only about less than 4,000 dead rats for the period of 10 months, would the Council consider our anti-rat campaign successful, given the fact that rats do multiply and if they are far out-numbering the human population, would this be a matter of concern for the Council?
MR. SULKE (in English):—I am afraid Dr. CHAM missed what I said, I said worldwide, I did not say Hong Kong. In Hong Kong we are lucky because we live in an island and islands are usually, I mean rats can swim, but they do not like it (laughter), so there are more rats in Kowloon than in Hong Kong. The simple answer is, in fact, compared to other cities you see very few rats here during the day, but many in other cities. When you see rats during the day, then you know there really is a large number. I think in Hong Kong I have very rarely seen one during the day and I do sometime see some at night. I think we are being effective.
MR. TONG (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask about left-overs. Mr. SULKE said that there should be containers with lids and the left-overs should be transported at night, but I myself have never seen the left-overs transported at night. I have seen it being done during the day when rattan baskets and containers with holes are used and the left-overs are left in back lanes and so on which are the sources of complaint very often. Over the years how many prosecutions have we made in that connection and have we really seriously tackled the problem?
MR. SULKE (in English):—Mr. Chairman, we were talking about restaurants and I think my friend is talking more about cooked food stalls and siu mei shops. As far as I know, restaurants are very well behaved and do use containers or plastic bags. I agree 100 per cent that the smaller places are not very well disciplined, I cannot give an answer on how many prosecutions there have been, but I will ask the department to look that one up and will give you a written reply.
MR. CHUNG (in English):—Mr. Chairman, as a matter of fact, I would confirm that the rat problems are serious, especially in the factory areas. In a lot of factories, people said they have found a lot of rats there and in fact some night shift people consider that there must be some ghosts running around, because they heard so many sounds and noises. Probably as you know it is not on Hong Kong side, not surrounded by water, so I do not know where the rats come from, either there must be some ways where we can sort of start an anti-rat campaign, or whatever it might be, but not to the extent of a state of emergency or whatever it may be against the rats, but I think there is a serious problem there for us to consider.
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CHAIRMAN (in English):—Are you asking a supplementary or asking to start an anti-rat campaign?
MR. SULKE (in English):—I think the supplementary is that we should really take a look at whether we need a campaign and I will ask my committee to look at that.
MR. JOSEPH CHAN (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, in answer to one question, Mr. SULKE said that from January to October 1985, there were 3,870 dead rats, and in 1984 the number was 3,784. You must have that many live rats before you catch that many dead rats and it must mean that there is an increase in live rats before you have an increase in dead rats, so if that is anything to go by, our anti-rodent campaign does not seem to be very successful, it has failed. Perhaps we should provide prizes to those who catch the most number of live rats (laughter) or another prize for the person who produces the most number of dead rats, has that been considered? It does seem like a joke but by providing some sort of incentive, it may make the anti-rodent campaign more successful. I know that in some other countries they use precisely that sort of way of going about the campaign.
MR. SULKE (in English):—Could I sound a word of warning, I remember one particular city council that used the system and then forgot to pay, and the Pied Piper of Hamelin disappeared with all the children. Quite seriously, I will ask the committee to look at this. Perhaps I do not know about giving prizes for dead rats, but perhaps we will find a way of encouraging our citizens to keep their provisions under cover, so that it will not discourage just rats, but also cockroaches, insects of all sorts and even snakes; that will make the life of our pest control people a little easier.
MR. YOUNG (in English):—Mr. Chairman, relating to Mr. TONG's question, I would like to ask whether Mr. SULKE is aware or recall that about two years ago during the Clean Hong Kong Campaign against recidivists, in fact, the champion recidivist was a person conveying pig food in an improper manner in Causeway Bay. She has been fined seven times, and again relating to the supplementary by Mr. CHAN I am wondering whether Mr. SULKE was aware that if you did have a prize campaign and certainly the USD people in Central who did respond to the call from my secretary, whose office is situated on the top of a restaurant would have qualified for at least 10 prizes within one day.
MR. SULKE (in English):—Mr. Chairman, I do remember that recidivist, but I was under the impression that she was in fact really collecting pig food and I hope that our restaurants are not serving that. On the second point as I said before rats eat anything and it is quite possible that the paper in Mr. YOUNG'S office is so tasty, and that was what they were living on.
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