HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
The motion was referred back to the Resettlement Policy Select Committee and Dr. BELL, as Chairman, and members including myself agreed to the present phraseology. The Senior Officers of the Resettlement Department are under no delusion that in fact by this motion, Resettlement Officers are given, inter alia, power to arrest hawkers and that is why I repeat that in fact this Power should be exercised most sparingly, say one arrest per estate per annum, and if any Senior Officer of the Resettlement Department in describing this resolution to the Resettlement Officers concerned, described it as "at last giving them power to arrest hawkers", then I for one will move that this Power be rescinded.
It is much more than a question of principle. It has to do with the whole conception of officers of the Resettlement Department. They are not a disciplined body as the Hawker Control Force is, whose primary object is to control hawkers. I repeat again their primary object is to manage resettlement estates which now house about a 1/4 of Hong Kong's total population. I quite appreciate that Resettlement Officers should have powers under Section 84 of the Public Health and Urban Services Ordinance which deal with the control of hawkers, because hawkers have for a long time been a problem in resettlement estates and obviously will, in the future, be more of a problem just because of the numbers involved. Therefore when a Resettlement Officer gives an order he should feel that he has the law behind him, but this is a far cry from actually going to the extent of arresting a hawker, whose one concern is to earn a living for her family. It is an onerous duty that needs a lot of tact and special training which is exemplified in the fact that members of the Hawker Control Force do not go on the streets until they have qualified through a training course.
Obviously, the long range object should be to provide enough members of the Hawker Control Force for Resettlement Estates and leave Resettlement Officers to do their own duties. So my second point is that this is only to be regarded as an interim measure and indeed I would suggest that the Resettlement Policy Select Committee surveys the question at, say, 6 monthly intervals. Resettlement Officers must not be given the impression that they have acquired further rights, but only that circumstances make it necessary for them to incur further obligations as a temporary measure.
Dr. BELL has given a very clear elaboration of the detail of this Motion and I shall not attempt to enlarge upon her explanation except to say that I concur with it. This decision to extend these obligations, again I stress obligations rather than stressing powers, was taken in a joint meeting of the Resettlement Policy Select Committee and Hawker Select Committee of which latter Select Committee I am Chairman. I am assured and I accept the assurance that great care will be taken to ensure that these obligations and powers are properly exercised in the general interest of estate dwellers. I therefore have much pleasure in seconding Dr. BELL's motion.
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
MR. HU: Mr. Chairman, I would point out to you section 84(1) (2) (3) and also (5) of that particular Ordinance, "Any public officers"- there is no definition in this Ordinance itself. What is the definition of "a public officer"? The point which I would like to bring to your attention Mr. Chairman, and to the Council, is whether we have authority to fill this lacuna in law, whether it should be up to the Legislative Council to fill this lacuna or whether we could fill it. If you read the interpretation clause, that is to say clause 2 of this Ordinance, there is no definition of a "public officer". And by introducing this resolution we must consider the definition of a "public officer" which is lacking in the Ordinance itself. With this observation Mr. Chairman, I support the motion. I'm sorry, but I must draw your attention to this point. It seems to me, Mr. Chairman, that you are always very conscientious about the jurisdiction of Urban Council (Laughter). What are your views, Mr. Chairman?
CHAIRMAN: Mr. Hu, this is a motion, and members may make one speech on the motion. It is not an occasion for asking questions.
MR. HU: What is your view on that point?
CHAIRMAN: (noticing Mr. BARTY rising) Perhaps Mr. BARTY is going to express a view?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: No I wasn't, Mr. Chairman. (Laughter). But I would hazard a guess, perhaps some member present will verify this point, but I would say that a "public officer" is defined in the Interpretation Ordinance. I was rising to support this motion Mr. Chairman. I would say at once that I have no quarrel with the terms in which it has been proposed and seconded. I appreciate that my friend Mr. BERNACCHI's remarks were directed towards stilling an irrational fear of some hawkers rather than to reflecting any lack of the confidence which I hope he may have in the good sense of the staff of the Resettlement Department. I hope that in reading Mr. BERNACCHI's speech tomorrow in the newspapers, hawkers will not claim that a quota of arrests has been established! (Laughter) and that once the quota of one arrest per estate per annum is reached, then the by-laws are in suspense until the following first of January! (Laughter). That, I am sure, was not Mr. BERNACCHI's intention. I would confirm what has already been said by the Chairman of the Resettlement Policy Select Committee, that we in the Department have every intention of exercising this responsibility in a sensible way. I hold out very little hope of an immediate and startling improvement in conditions in resettlement estates. I think that must await development of experience and of co-
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