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since Colonel Allen's arrival, he did not suggest that they should discuss the question of naval policy in the Pacific at that meeting, but it might be useful to recall how the matter stood. At the Conference of 1909, at which the question of the co-operation of the Dominions with the United Kingdom in naval defence was discussed, con- siderable divergence of opinion as to the best method to adopt was shown. The Canadian and Australian representatives were of opinion that the best course was to lay the foundations of navies of their own. Sir Joseph Ward, then Prime Minister of Now Zealand, on the other hand, favoured the method of contribution to one Imperial Fleet. In the result the decision arrived at was to remodel the Fleet in Eastern waters, so as to provide a force organized in three Fleet units, each consisting of 1 armoured, now termed battle, cruiser, 3 protected cruisers, 6 destroyers, and 3 submarines. One unit to be allotted each to the Indian, China, and Australian stations. The generous offers, first of New Zealand and then of Australia, to contribute to Imperial naval defence by the gift of a battle-ship each, were accepted, and it was the opinion of the Conference that the gift from New Zealand and the annual contribution should be applied towards the maintenance of the Fleet unit on the China station, and that some of the smaller vessels of this unit should, so far as possible, be manned by New Zealanders and be stationed in New Zealand waters. The British Government was to provide the Indian Fleet unit and part of that in China, and the Australian Government that in their own waters. Since that time the situation had to some extent changed. In view of the naval situation in European waters, the Admiralty represented that it was desirable that the battle-cruiser “New Zealand" should be attached to the Fleet in the North Sea instead of being sent to China. To this request the New Zealand Government generously assented, but in the meanwhile that vessel was to visit New Zealand, starting on her voyage that day. The factors in these problems changed constantly, and he therefore thought that the time had arrived to review the policy decided upon in 1909 in the light of subsequent events and their probable course in the near future.

COLONEL ALLEN thanked the Prime Minister for his kind expressions of welcome, and said that he greatly valued the opportunity afforded him of attending the Committee. As to the question of naval policy, he agreed with the Prime Minister that it would be more convenient in the first place to discuss the question informally with the Admiralty. Since the Conferences of 1909 and 1911 the Govern- ment in New Zealand had changed. The new Government had not long been in office and had not yet defined their policy in this matter. He, himself, had come to the United Kingdom in order to ascertain the views of the Admiralty as to the bearing of the subsequent changes on the decisions come to in 1909 so that their policy in New Zealand might accord with facts. As he had said, the matter had not yet been considered by the New Zealand Government. Speaking for himself he did not think that Sir Joseph Ward's policy of contributing by means of a subsidy to the Imperial Navy could be a permanent one. Public opinion in New Zealand was as yet undefined, but he was sure that ultimately the people of New Zealand would wish to see the ships and men they paid for, and to have some control over any unit established in the future by themselves as part of an Imperial Navy. On his way to the United Kingdom he had discussed this question with members of the Government of Australia, who were anxious for New Zealand to join with Australia in these matters, but he had made it quite clear to them that under no conditions would he consent to such a course unless the joint Navy came in time of war under single Imperial control.

MR. CHURCHILL said that the principal change in the situation since 1909 was the German Navy Law of 1912. Under this law there had been an immense expansion in the number of German warships constantly ready for action in close proximity to our shores. This involved a consequent expansion in our defence. The financial strain was serious, but the strain on our resources of skilled ratings was much more so. Money could be found quickly enough, but time was required to train the highly-skilled ratings now essential. This had been the main factor in delaying the carrying out of the policy decided upon in 1909. The Admiralty had been engaged in preparing an expression of their views for transmission to the Dominions through the Colonial Office, but on hearing that Colonel Allen was on his way to the United Kingdom he had decided to suspend further action until he had had an opportunity personally to consult with him. He agreed that before further dis- cussion took place in the Committee, a preliminary Conference should take place between Colonel Allen and the Admiralty, and a frank interchange of views.

The

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