Page 23 of 185
38
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
Mr. WONG should continue to urge the Department to adopt a modern system as soon as possible in order to collect money accurately and efficiently and this can also save manpower.
MR. STEPHEN M. L. LAU (in Cantonese):- Mr. Chairman, I support the motion but I have some remarks. For the admission charges for children, I hope that the Recreation Select Committee will pay more attention in this level of increase because many activities of the Council are heavily subsidized and we do not need to recover the full cost necessarily. It will create some burden to a family which has a few children to go swimming in the summer vacation occasionally.
MR. WALTER M. SULKE (in English):- Mr. Chairman, I do not support the motion. Two reasons: one commercial. Very often raising prices is counter-productive and keeps people away. The main reason is that we have little recreational space in Hong Kong in comparison to our population. I think we really must subsidize and must subsidize to a very large degree this sort of activity. My view is it is quite wrong to raise prices as much as we are raising them. I do not support the motion.
MR. JOSEPH Y. S. CHAN (in Cantonese): Mr. Chairman, I support half of the motion but not the other half. So I will abstain from voting because I cannot in actual fact support only half of the motion. I support the raise in the fees for adults who can afford and the level of increase is reasonable. As far as the increase of fees for children is concerned, although one dollar is by no means a large sum, if we continue to increase the admission fees of children, it may deter them from patronising these healthy recreational facilities provided by the Council especially during the summer months. We often say or it is often said that the young people have very little healthy places to go. If we keep on increasing the admission fees for these healthy recreational facilities, they will be forced to wander in the street. As a result, youth problems are created as a result especially those juvenile delinquents. It is often reported that many young people take drugs, soft drugs or are involved in fights in the streets. I recall that in 1985, the Council delegation paid a visit to Vancouver, Toronto in Canada, I was one of the members of the delegation. We found that the Municipal Councils there provided free admission to main facilities especially recreational facilities such as swimming pools. The reason is that the public have already paid their taxes or rates and it is not fair that they should be charged again. Although the rates are low in Hong Kong but they are on the increase and not all of them come to the Urban Council. The adults will accept this small increase. For the children, since they have limited pocket-money for use in healthy recreational activities, it is a pity for them to pay $3. They will go to the swimming pools several times a day if admission is free. Besides as the swimming pools are opened at different sessions and if they want to play a longer time, they would have to pay several times. The motion which seems to me to a certain extent is to deter young children from enjoying Urban Council facilities. I would abstain from voting and I am not in support of the second part of the motion concerning admission charges for children.
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
39
MR. LAM CHAK-PIU (in Cantonese):- Mr. Chairman, I do not support the motion. Apart from the points made by Mr. Joseph CHAN and Mr. Walter SULKE, I wish to make an additional point that deficit is not an excuse for raising admission charges. Urban Council facilities are open for the general public. I don't know whether it is a valid reason for increasing fees for adults since they can afford. Another reason for opposing this motion is that it is dangerous to replace well-trained permanent staff with temporary ones.
MR. FAN KAM-PING (in Cantonese):- Mr. Chairman, when Members consider whether they support or oppose the motion, I wish to provide the following information. The Recreation Select Committee in discussing admission charges for swimming pools have agreed at the same time that the five sessions per day should be reduced in respect of swimming pools to one single day-time session. In some cases, there are three sessions. To be more specific, in the case of the Lee Cheng Uk Swimming Pools and the Chai Wan Complex on the Island, there will be one single session instead of five. In other words, members of the public can swim from 7 a.m. to 9 p.m. In addition, in the Kennedy Town and Tai Wan Shan Swimming Pools, there will be a reduction from five sessions to three. In other words, instead of enjoying two hours, members of the public can swim about three to four hours per session. Although members of the public need to pay a little more, if they go to the aforesaid complexes, they will be able to enjoy the pools for a longer period of time. In fact, the increase in charges is a flexible measure. I think Members ought to consider this information as well.
MR. MARVIN K. T. CHEUNG (in English):- Mr. Chairman, I support the motion to increase the entrance fees due to financial reasons. There is a limit to the subsidy one can provide for any activity sponsored by the Council. I am very pleased that Mr. FAN has highlighted the changes to the operational uses of the pools because I am aware that a lot of our pools are under-utilization and one way to increase our revenue is to increase the utilization of our pools and the change of the sessional charges will be a welcome move to many of our citizens. However, I will urge the Recreation Select Committee to look at other measures which will make the pools more attractive to our users because the cost of public transport to our public beaches would be well in excess of the entrance fees we are proposing to charge to our citizens. So I believe the new charges are still very reasonable if the services we provide for our pools are adequate.
MR. K. K. FUNG (in Cantonese):- Mr. Chairman, I do not support the motion. I am in agreement with the increase charges for adults. I am against the admission charges for children. But generally the reason why I am against the motion is that the reasons are not enough. We have never organized activities or provided facilities on a break-even basis, i.e., we do clean the streets and have to charge the people for cleaning. So this is not the reason for increasing the admission fees. In para. 2 of the speech by Mr. Samuel WONG, although the deficit is $56 million, the difference from the old rate is only $3 million. I think we ought to consider not to increase the admission charges for children.
Page 23 of 185
Page 23 of 185
38
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
Mr. WONG should continue to urge the Department to adopt a modern system as soon as possible in order to collect money accurately and efficiently and this can also save manpower.
MR. STEPHEN M. L. LAU (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, I support the motion but I have some remarks. For the admission charges for children, I hope that the Recreation Select Committee will pay more attention in this level of increase because many activities of the Council are heavily subsidized and we do not need to recover the full cost necessarily. It will create some burden to a family which has a few children to go swimming in the summer vacation occasionally.
MR. WALTER M. SULKE (in English):- -Mr. Chairman, I do not support the motion. Two reasons: one commercial. Very often raising prices is counter- productive and keeps people away. The main reason is that we have little recreational space in Hong Kong in comparison to our population. I think we really must subsidize and must subsidize to a very large degree this sort of activity. My view is it is quite wrong to raise prices as much as we are raising them. I do not support the motion.
MR. JOSEPH Y. S. CHAN (in Cantonese): Mr. Chairman, I support half of the motion but not the other half. So I will abstain from voting because I cannot in actual fact support only half of the motion. I support the raise in the fees for adults who can afford and the level of increase is reasonable. As far as the increase of fees for children is concerned, although one dollar is by no means a large sum, if we continue to increase the admission fees of children, it may deter them from patronising these healthy recreational facilities provided by the Council especially during the summer months. We often say or it is often said that the young people have very little healthy places to go. If we keep on increasing the admission fees for these healthy recreational facilities, they will be forced to wander in the street. As a result, youth problems are created as a result especially those juvenile delinquents. It is often reported that many young people take drugs, soft drugs or are involved in fights in the streets. I recall that in 1985, the Council delegation paid a visit to Vancouver, Toronto in Canada, I was one of the members of the delegation. We found that the Municipal Councils there provided free admission to main facilities especially recreational facilities such as swimming pools. The reason is that the public have already paid their taxes or rates and it is not fair that they should be charged again. Although the rates are low in Hong Kong but they are on the increase and not all of them come to the Urban Council. The adults will accept this small increase. For the children, since they have limited pocket-money for use in healthy recreational activities, it is a pity for them to pay $3. They will go to the swimming pools several times a day if admission is free. Besides as the swimming pools are opened at different sessions and if they want to play a longer time, they would have to pay several times. The motion which seems to me to a certain extent is to deter young children from enjoying Urban Council facilities. I would abstain from voting and I am not in support of the second part of the motion concerning admission charges for children.
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
Page 23 of 185
39
MR. LAM CHAK-PIU (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, I do not support the motion. Apart from the points made by Mr. Joseph CHAN and Mr. Walter SULKE, I wish to make an additional point that deficit is not an excuse for raising admission charges. Urban Council facilities are open for the general public. I don't know whether it is a valid reason for increasing fees for adult since they can afford. Another reason for opposing this motion is that it is dangerous to replace well-trained permanent staff to temporary ones.
MR. FAN KAM-PING (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, when Members consider whether they support or oppose the motion, I wish to provide the following information. The Recreation Select Committee in discussing admission charges for swimming pools have agreed at the same time that the five sessions per day should be reduced in respect of swimming pools to one single day-time session. In some cases, there are three sessions. To be more specific, in the case of the Lee Cheng Uk Swimming Pools and the Chai Wan Complex on the Island, there will be one single session instead of five. In other words, members of the public can swim from 7 a.m. to 9 p.m. In addition, in the Kennedy Town and Tai Wan Shan Swimming Pools, there will be a reduction from five sessions to three. In other words, instead of enjoying two hours, members of the public can swim about three to four hours per session. Although members of the public need to pay a little more, if they go to the aforesaid complexes, they will be able to enjoy the pools for a longer period of time. In fact, the increase in charges is a flexible measure. I think Members ought to consider this information as well.
MR. MARVIN K. T. CHEUNG (in English):-Mr. Chairman, I support the motion to increase the entrance fees due to financial reasons. There is limit to the subsidy one can provide for any activity sponsored by the Council. I am very pleased that Mr. FAN has highlighted the changes to the operational uses of the pools because I am aware that a lot of our pools are under-utilization and one will increase our revenue is to increase the utilization of our pools and the change of the sessional charges will be a welcome move to many of our citizen. However, I will urge the Recreation Select Committee to look at other measures which will make the pools more attractive to our users because the cost of public transport to our public beaches would be well excess of the entrance fees we are proposing to charge to our citizen. So I believe the new charges are still very reasonable if the services we provide for our pools are adequate.
MR. K. K. FUNG (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, I do not support the motion. I am in agreement with the increase charges for adults. I am against the admission charges for children. But generally the reason why I against the motion is that the reasons are not enough. We have never organized activities or provided facilities on a breakeven basis, i.e. we do clean the streets and have to charge the people for cleaning. So this is not the reason for increasing the admission fees. In para. 2 of the speech by Mr. Samuel WONG that although the deficit is $56 million, the difference from the old rate is only $3 million. I think we ought to consider not to increase the admission charges for children.
No comments yet.
Private notes are available after approval.