1983 — Page 98

Urban Council Proceedings 市政局議事錄 All AI Reviewed

Page 98 of 194

165

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

them have moved to commercial premises in order that their business can be carried on or have they moved elsewhere?

MR. SHUM (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, according to the survey, it was reviewed that at least 30 to 40 such traders have moved to commercial building to continue their business. In fact, some of them joined together to rent a shop.

MR. LEE (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, on the definition of hawkers, I don't think I have been given a clear reply. Take the example of the flower hawkers in Fa Hui, if it is merely because of the name, then we have the responsibility toward them. I don't think that is fair because we cannot actually differentiate the street traders in Fa Hui and Luen Wan Street. So, I don't think my question has been answered. The other question is that apart from those who have moved to the nearby commercial complex, I would like to know how many are still trading on the street and what problems are caused?

MR. SHUM (in Cantonese): Mr. Chairman, apart from the name of Fa Hui, which is historical in itself, I remembered that the Government has a sort of agreement with those flower hawkers so that they could trade there. On the other hand, I don't think the Government has any contract with the goldfish traders. It is only because no complaints were received that they can trade there. The second point which I have just mentioned concerns our responsibility towards the food wholesalers. I think the position was clear only about a month ago as we have consulted legal advice, and know exactly that our responsibility is only towards the food suppliers.

MR. YOUNG (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, I understood that the Urban Council does charge the hawkers or traders trading in Fa Hui, and so they are not being subsidized from the general rates. I would like to ask if the goldfish traders are prepared to pay a fair market rent, and if we have suitable sites to let them, say for instance, we have vacancy or we have vacant shops in some of the market complexes, are we going to consider this possibility?

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese):—This question is not directly related, are you going to answer?

MR. SHUM (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, maybe I try to be brief. In case such happens, I am certain that the question would be raised for further discussion in the select committee.

MR. LEE (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, in dealing with similar problems, whether they are goldfish traders or flower traders, if the business is of a large scale, would the Market and Street Traders Select Committee consider reviewing the current policy?

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese):—I think this question is a little bit irrelevant. Are you going to answer?

MR. SHUM (in Cantonese):—On the matter of policy, the relevant select committee is reviewing the position all the time, and if Mr. LEE thinks it is necessary to review the situation again, he can raise the point in the future Markets and Street Traders Select Committee. I am sure Members would welcome discussion on the question again.

Mrs. Ho (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask whether the wholesalers are controlled by the Government and not the Urban Council, if we are going to change the policy, we would be in conflict with the Central Government?

MR. SHUM (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, Mrs. Ho is correct.

MOTION

MR. WALTER M. SULKE moved the following motion:—

THAT the Urban Services Department takes over the cleansing of Hong Kong waters billing the Central Government for the equipment necessary and the additional personnel necessary.'

He said (in English):—Mr. Chairman, in rising to move the motion standing in my name on today's order paper, I unfortunately have to state that I have been trying to move the Hong Kong Government to do something about the state of our waters and especially the state of our Harbour for longer than I care to remember, and I have so far achieved no result whatsoever. You only have to look out of the windows of this building to see how much worse the pollution of our waters has become and there are many days when it is quite possible for someone to actually walk across the debris in our waters.

Don't let anyone think that this is just an aesthetic problem. Although it is very unsightly and turns off many tourists, that is the least of the problems.

For instance:

One Sunday last summer the whole harbour stank like our infamous Kai Tak nullah. A combination of circumstances had produced pollution which turned into hydrogen sulphide, which is so corrosive that even the Hong Kong Air Force Helicopters are attacked by it and require far more service than would otherwise be necessary, which of course translates into very high maintenance costs accruing to the tax payer. The obnoxious smell also makes people sick and I wouldn't be at all surprised if something that corrodes metal wouldn't also corrode the human body.

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Page 98 of 194 165 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL them have moved to commercial premises in order that their business can be carried on or have they moved elsewhere? MR. SHUM (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, according to the survey, it was reviewed that at least 30 to 40 such traders have moved to commercial building to continue their business. In fact, some of them joined together to rent a shop. MR. LEE (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, on the definition of hawkers, I don't think I have been given a clear reply. Take the example of the flower hawkers in Fa Hui, if it is merely because of the name, then we have the responsibility toward them. I don't think that is fair because we cannot actually differentiate the street traders in Fa Hui and Luen Wan Street. So, I don't think my question has been answered. The other question is that apart from those who have moved to the nearby commercial complex, I would like to know how many are still trading on the street and what problems are caused? MR. SHUM (in Cantonese): Mr. Chairman, apart from the name of Fa Hui, which is historical in itself, I remembered that the Government has a sort of agreement with those flower hawkers so that they could trade there. On the other hand, I don't think the Government has any contract with the goldfish traders. It is only because no complaints were received that they can trade there. The second point which I have just mentioned concerns our responsibility towards the food wholesalers. I think the position was clear only about a month ago as we have consulted legal advice, and know exactly that our responsibility is only towards the food suppliers. MR. YOUNG (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, I understood that the Urban Council does charge the hawkers or traders trading in Fa Hui, and so they are not being subsidized from the general rates. I would like to ask if the goldfish traders are prepared to pay a fair market rent, and if we have suitable sites to let them, say for instance, we have vacancy or we have vacant shops in some of the market complexes, are we going to consider this possibility? CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese):—This question is not directly related, are you going to answer? MR. SHUM (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, maybe I try to be brief. In case such happens, I am certain that the question would be raised for further discussion in the select committee. MR. LEE (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, in dealing with similar problems, whether they are goldfish traders or flower traders, if the business is of a large scale, would the Market and Street Traders Select Committee consider reviewing the current policy? 1 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese):—I think this question is a little bit irrelevant. Are you going to answer? MR. SHUM (in Cantonese):—On the matter of policy, the relevant select committee is reviewing the position all the time, and if Mr. LEE thinks it is necessary to review the situation again, he can raise the point in the future Markets and Street Traders Select Committee. I am sure Members would welcome discussion on the question again. Mrs. Ho (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask whether the wholesalers are controlled by the Government and not the Urban Council, if we are going to change the policy, we would be in conflict with the Central Government? MR. SHUM (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, Mrs. Ho is correct. MOTION MR. WALTER M. SULKE moved the following motion:— THAT the Urban Services Department takes over the cleansing of Hong Kong waters billing the Central Government for the equipment necessary and the additional personnel necessary.' He said (in English):—Mr. Chairman, in rising to move the motion standing in my name on today's order paper, I unfortunately have to state that I have been trying to move the Hong Kong Government to do something about the state of our waters and especially the state of our Harbour for longer than I care to remember, and I have so far achieved no result whatsoever. You only have to look out of the windows of this building to see how much worse the pollution of our waters has become and there are many days when it is quite possible for someone to actually walk across the debris in our waters. Don't let anyone think that this is just an aesthetic problem. Although it is very unsightly and turns off many tourists, that is the least of the problems. For instance: One Sunday last summer the whole harbour stank like our infamous Kai Tak nullah. A combination of circumstances had produced pollution which turned into hydrogen sulphide, which is so corrosive that even the Hong Kong Air Force Helicopters are attacked by it and require far more service than would otherwise be necessary, which of course translates into very high maintenance costs accruing to the tax payer. The obnoxious smell also makes people sick and I wouldn't be at all surprised if something that corrodes metal wouldn't also corrode the human body. Page 98 of 194 164

Baseline (Original)

Page 98 of 194 Page 98 of 194 165 164 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL them have moved to commercial premises in order that their business can be carried on or have they moved elsewhere? MR. SHUM (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, according to the survey, it was reviewed that at least 30 to 40 such traders have moved to commercial building to continue their business. In fact, some of them joined together to rent a s and many of them are capable of doing that. shop. MR. LEE (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, on the definition of hawkers, I don; think I have been given a clear reply. Take the example of the flower hawkers in F Hui, if it is merely because of the name, then we have the responsibility toward them. I don't think that is fair because we cannot actually differentiate the stre traders in Fa Hui and Luen Wan Street. So, I don't think my question has bee answered. The other question is that apart from those who have moved to t nearby commercial complex, I would like to know how many are still trading street and what problems are caused? MR. SHUM (in Cantonese): Mr. Chairman, apart from the name of Fa H.. which is historical in itself, I remembered that the Government has a sort agreement with those flower hawkers so that they could trade there. On th other hand, I don't think the Government has any contract with the goldfis traders. It is only because no complaints were received that they can trade ther The second point which I have just mentioned concerns our responsibil towards the food wholesalers. I think the position was clear only about a mont ago as we have consulted legal advice, and know exactly that our responsibilit is only towards the food suppliers. MR. YOUNG (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, I understood that the Urba Council does charge the hawkers or traders trading in Fu Hui, and so they are m being subsidized from the general rates. I would like to ask if the goldfish trader are prepared to pay a fair market rent, and if we have suitable sites to let them to them, say for instance, we have vacancy or we have vacant shops in some of t market complexes, are we going to consider this possibility? CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese):-This question is not directly related, are you going to answer? MR. SHUM (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, maybe I try to be brief. In case such happens, I am certain that the question would be raised for furthe discussion in the select committee. MR. LEE (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, in dealing with similar problem: whether they are goldfish traders or flower traders, if the business is of a larg scale, would the Market and Street Traders Select Committee consider reviewing the current policy? 1 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese):—I think this question is a little bit irrelevant. Are vou going to answer? MR. SHUM (in Cantonese):--On the matter of policy, the relevant select committee is reviewing the position all the time, and if Mr. LEE thinks it is necessary to review the situation again, he can raise the point in the future Markets and Street Traders Select Committee. I am sure Members would welcome discussion on the question again. Mrs. Ho (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask whether the wholesalers are controlled by the Government und not the Urban Council, if we are going to change the policy, we would be in conflict with the Central Government? MR. SHUM (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, Mrs. Ho is correct. MOTION MR. WALTER M. SULKE moved the following motion:-- THAT the Urban Services Department takes over the cleansing of Hong Kong waters billing the Central Government for the equipment necessary and the additional personnel necessary.' He said (in English):--Mr. Chairman, in rising to move the motion standing in my name on today's order paper, I unfortunately have to state that I have been trying to move the Hong Kong Government to do something about the state of our waters and especially the state of our Harbour for longer than I care to remember, and I have so far achieved no result whatsoever. You only have to look out of the windows of this building to see how much worse the pollution of our waters has become and there are many days when it is quite possible for someone to actually walk across the debris in our waters. Don't let anyone think that this is just an aesthetic problem. Although it is very unsightly and turns off many tourists, that is the least of the problems. For instance: One Sunday last summer the whole harbour stank like our infamous Kai Tak nullah. A combination of circumstances had produced pollution which turned into hydrogen sulphide, which is so corrosive that even the Hong Kong Air Force Helicopters are attacked by it and require far more service than would otherwise be necessary, which of course translates into very high maintenance costs accruing to the tax payer. The obnoxious smell also makes people sick and I wouldn't be at all surprised if something that corrodes metal wouldn't also corrode the human body.

2026-05-15 11:23:19 · Baseline

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Page 98 of 194

165

164

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

them have moved to commercial premises in order that their business can be

carried on or have they moved elsewhere?

and many of them are capable of doing that.

shop.

MR. LEE (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, on the definition of hawkers, I don; think I have been given a clear reply. Take the example of the flower hawkers in F Hui, if it is merely because of the name, then we have the responsibility toward them. I don't think that is fair because we cannot actually differentiate the stre traders in Fa Hui and Luen Wan Street. So, I don't think my question has bee answered. The other question is that apart from those who have moved to t nearby commercial complex, I would like to know how many are still trading

street and what problems are caused?

MR. SHUM (in Cantonese): Mr. Chairman, apart from the name of Fa H.. which is historical in itself, I remembered that the Government has a sort agreement with those flower hawkers so that they could trade there. On th other hand, I don't think the Government has any contract with the goldfis traders. It is only because no complaints were received that they can trade ther The second point which I have just mentioned concerns our responsibil towards the food wholesalers. I think the position was clear only about a mont ago as we have consulted legal advice, and know exactly that our responsibilit is only towards the food suppliers.

MR. YOUNG (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, I understood that the Urba Council does charge the hawkers or traders trading in Fu Hui, and so they are m being subsidized from the general rates. I would like to ask if the goldfish trader are prepared to pay a fair market rent, and if we have suitable sites to let them to them, say for instance, we have vacancy or we have vacant shops in some of t market complexes, are we going to consider this possibility?

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese):-This question is not directly related, are you going to answer?

MR. SHUM (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, maybe I try to be brief. In case such happens, I am certain that the question would be raised for furthe discussion in the select committee.

MR. LEE (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, in dealing with similar problem: whether they are goldfish traders or flower traders, if the business is of a larg scale, would the Market and Street Traders Select Committee consider reviewing the current policy?

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese):—I think this question is a little bit irrelevant. Are

vou going to answer?

MR. SHUM (in Cantonese):--On the matter of policy, the relevant select committee is reviewing the position all the time, and if Mr. LEE thinks it is necessary to review the situation again, he can raise the point in the future Markets and Street Traders Select Committee. I am sure Members would

welcome discussion on the question again.

Mrs. Ho (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask whether the wholesalers are controlled by the Government und not the Urban Council, if we are going to change the policy, we would be in conflict with the Central Government? MR. SHUM (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, Mrs. Ho is correct.

MOTION

MR. WALTER M. SULKE moved the following motion:--

THAT the Urban Services Department takes over the cleansing of Hong Kong waters billing the Central Government for the equipment necessary and the additional personnel necessary.'

He said (in English):--Mr. Chairman, in rising to move the motion standing in my name on today's order paper, I unfortunately have to state that I have been trying to move the Hong Kong Government to do something about the state of our waters and especially the state of our Harbour for longer than I care to remember, and I have so far achieved no result whatsoever. You only have to look out of the windows of this building to see how much worse the pollution of our waters has become and there are many days when it is quite possible for someone to actually walk across the debris in our waters.

Don't let anyone think that this is just an aesthetic problem. Although it is very unsightly and turns off many tourists, that is the least of the problems.

1983 — Page 98

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