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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
In July this year, an Urban Council delegation consisting of Urban Councillors, library and E.D.P. staff visited Canada and the United States - the purpose of studying library computerization systems in these two countries. The delegation concentrated in particular on problems encountered by users of a number of computerized systems, how these problems were or are being dealt with, and recent developments in the field of Chinese data-processing systems.
A report on the visit was recently considered by the Libraries Select Committee and the Computerization Sub-Committee, and it was decided that a number of aspects relating to the data processing of Chinese would need to be studied further, and that the firms who had previously submitted detailed proposals should be invited to suggest solutions.
The department now has this in hand, and I understand that a full evaluation report will be submitted for consideration by the Council in the near future.
MR. JOSEPH CHAN (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, I want to ask a supplementary question. In future, we will have the Chinese data processing system. I wonder whether this will be affected by the financial difficulties we may encounter... whether this will have any impact on the whole computerization system?
MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):—Mr. Chairman, there will be no effect because on the economic situation as we have already budgeted for computerization. The problem is with the system rather than with financing of it.
MR. JOSEPH CHAN (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, what about the Chinese data processing systems? Will the difficulties encountered delay in the implementation of this?
MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):—Mr. Chairman, I am afraid that there will be some delay because of the Chinese problem. We have found a suitable Chinese system, but it is not compatible with other systems required for libraries, and a great deal of research will have to be carried out before we have the final answer. We don't expect a perfect system. We expect a good system because we don't want to waste our money, and therefore we think delay is worthwhile.
8. MR. LEE CHIK-YUET asked the following question (in Cantonese):—Goldfish and concerned commodities street traders outside the Mong Kok Railway Station in Luen Wan Road after trading there for more than twenty years, are now forced to move from the site due to a development project that will take place there. What has the Urban Council done or will do in regard to this issue?
MR. SHUM CHOI-sang, Chairman of the Markets and Street Traders Select Committee, replied as follows (in Cantonese):—This question concerns the status of the goldfish traders at Luen Wan Street and the Council's responsibility towards them.
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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
Many of these traders have been doing business in the early mornings (from about 5 to 8:30 a.m.) at Luen Wan Street for some years, but some have arrived more recently. As the street was quiet and lightly trafficked, their activities, though strictly speaking an illegal occupation of the street, caused little obstruction and attracted few complaints from the public.
When it became apparent that development in the area would mean closure of the road, the Mong Kok District Office and the City Services Department undertook a survey to see whether it was appropriate to make alternative arrangements for them to continue operation. The survey showed that the traders were mainly tropical fish and bloodworm farmers, manufacturers of aquarium apparatus and importers of goldfish and tropical fish from Southeast Asia. They used Luen Wan Street as the assembly place for wholesale business simply as an additional business outlet.
The Council simply cannot undertake to provide trading premises for any group of illegal traders who are legitimately dispossessed of their favourite sites. As these traders were not essentially hawkers, the Council considered that they could make their own business arrangements to carry on with their trading elsewhere. Indeed, I understand that this is what some of them have done.
MR. LEE (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, from the reply I have heard from Mr. SHUM saying that some of these people were not hawkers originally. I believe the Markets and Street Traders Select Committee within the Urban Council and according to the meaning of the words, all those people trading on the street could be interpreted as hawkers. I would like to ask what is the definition of hawkers? Secondly, if they are wholesalers and for that reason, they are not treated as hawkers. I would like to ask why those people treated specially in Fa Hai but not those goldfish traders?
MR. SHUM (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, on the definition of hawkers, if you refer to the responsibility of hawkers, you will get a clear picture. Firstly, the person has to be trading there on his own and the business is a small-scale business. On top of that is, the hawkers here are mostly illegal hawkers. So, I don't think we have any responsibility to resite them, and for the hawkers hawking in the flower market in Fa Hui, I am sure just by the name, you know the significance of the place. This place is not named as Goldfish Hui or goldfish market. I remembered in the past, in leasing the shops to the flower hawkers, the government had undertaken certain obligations towards them and as I have just said, because of the name of the place, it shows that they have been selling flowers there for a long time. Another additional point I would like to make is that according to the regulations governing hawkers, our responsibility is only towards the hawkers and not wholesalers. So unless goldfish can be eaten, otherwise I don't think we have the responsibility towards them.
MR. YOUNG (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, from the replies, I understood that some of those goldfish traders have moved elsewhere. Does that mean that some of...
Page 97 of 194
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Page 97 of 194
162
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
In July this year, an Urban Council delegation consisting of Urba Councillors, library and E.D.P. staff visited Canada and the United States - the purpose of studying library computerization systems in these two countrie The delegation concentrated in particular on problems encountered by users
a number of computerized systems, how these problems were or are
being dea
with, and recent developments in the field of Chinese data-processing system
Committee and the Computerization Sub-Committee, and it was decided tha.. A report on the visit was recently considered by the Libraries Sele number of aspects relating to the data processing of Chinese would need te b studied further, and that the firms who had previously submitted detail
proposals should be invited to suggest solutions.
The department now has this in hand, and I understand that a full evaluati report will be submitted for consideration by the Council in the near future
MR. JOSEPH CHAN (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, I want to ask a suppleme - tary question. In future, we will have the Chinese data processing system. I won whether this will be affected by the financial difficulties we may encounter... whether this will have any impact on the whole computerization system?
MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):—Mr. Chairman, there will be no effect because the economic situation as we have already budgeted for computerization. Il. problem is with the system rather than with financing of it.
MR. JOSEPH CHAN (in Cantonese):—Mr. Chairman, what about the Chinese do. processing systems? Will the difficulties encounter delay in the implementati of this?
MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):---Mr. Chairman, I am afraid that there will be sor delay because of the Chinese problem. We have found the suitable Chine system, but it is not compatible with other systems required for libraries, and great deal of research will have to be carried out before we have the final answ We don't expect a perfect system. We expect a good system because we der want to waste our money, and therefore we think delay is worthwhile.
8. MR. LEE CHIK-YUET asked the following question (in Cantonese):-Goh! · and concerned commodities street traders outside the Mong Kok Railway Stat in Luen Wan Road after trading there for more than twenty years, are now for to move from the site due to a development project that will take place there. Wi has the Urban Council done or will do in regard to this issue?
MR. SHUM CHOI-sang, Chairman of the Markets and Street Traders Sel: COMMITTEE, replied as follows (in Cantonese):-This question concerns status of the goldfish traders at Luen Wan Street and the Counc responsibility towards them.
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
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163
Many of these traders have been doing business in the early mornings (from about 5 to 8.30 a.m.) at Luen Wan Street for some years, but some have arrived though strictly speaking an illegal occupation of the street, caused little more recently. As the street was quiet and lightly trafficked. their activities, obstruction and attracted few complaints from the public.
When it became apparent that development in the area would mean closure the road, the Mong Kok District Office and the City Services Department ndertook a survey to see whether it was appropriate to make alternative Arrangements for them to continue operation. The survey showed that the ders were mainly tropical fish and bloodworm farmers, manufacturers of quarium apparatus and importers of goldfish and tropical fish from Southeast They used Luen Wan Street as the assembly place for wholesale business simply as an additional business outlet.
The Council simply cannot undertake to provide trading premises for any oup of illegal traders who are legitimately dispossessed of their favourite sites. As these traders were not essentially hawkers, the Council considered that they ould make their own business arrangements to carry on with their trading where. Indeed, I understand that this is what some of them have done.
i
MR. LEE (in Cantonese):--Mr. Chairman, from the reply I have heard from Mr. SHUM saying that some of these people were not hawkers originally I believe have the Markets and Street Traders Select Committee within the Urban uncil and according to the meaning of the words, all those people trading on the eeet could be interpreted as hawkers. I would like to ask what is the definition of askers? Secondly, if they are wholesalers and for that reason, they are not eated as hawkers. I would like to ask why those people treated specially in Fa Hai but not those goldfish traders?
MR. SHUM (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, on the definition of hawkers, if you refer to the responsibility of hawkers, you will get a clear picture. Firstly, the person has to be trading there on his own and the business is a small scale usiness. On top of that is, the hawkers here are mostly illegal hawkers. So, I don't think we have any responsibility to resite them, and for the hawkers Lawking in the flower market in Fa Hui, I am sure just by the name, you know the significance of the place. This place is not named as Goldfish Hui or goldfish market. I remembered in the past, in leasing the shops to the flower hawkers, the wernment had undertaken certain obligations towards them and as I have ast said, because of the name of the place, it shows that they have been selling wers there for a long time. Another additional point I would like to make is that according to the regulations governing hawkers, our responsibility is only wards the hawkers and not wholesalers. So unless goldfish can be eaten, therwise I don't think we have the responsibility towards them.
MR. YOUNG (in Cantonese): -Mr. Chairman, from the replies, I understood that e of those goldfish traders have moved elsewhere. Does that mean that some of
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