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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
(1) These officials no longer sat on our Council; and
(2) On the 14 August 1973, a Motion was passed that the Urban Council should delegate to its Standing Committee all the powers and functions of the Urban Council except, in effect, some of the financial powers. You, Mr. Chairman, have circulated to members, copies of a Motion that I moved, unsuccessfully, at the meeting of the 24 September 1974 to amend that delegation, in effect by bringing back into these public meetings such of those powers as would have previously been voted on in our open meetings. A lot of water has flown under the bridges of the Urban Council, since that date, and it is not my intention in this Motion to attempt to revive the Motion that was defeated in 1974. However, because of the retirement of several very senior members of the Government from our body, so that there is no longer anyone from the Administration to answer our questions, and because of this delegation of the powers and functions of our Urban Council to the Standing Committee, in recent years public meetings have been relatively short. The public has no real idea of the enormous amount of work done by the Urban Council, which is now largely approved, only, in the Standing Committee.
This system of working in silence for the last 10 years was possibly all very well when the Council was the only body dealing with local government. However, there are now the District Boards for comparison. Although these Boards themselves have committees dealing with various aspects of local government which concern the district, their committees submit reports to the District Boards at their public meetings, which therefore usually last for three to four hours. Indeed, so long that the Chairman takes a break in the middle for refreshments!
I have also spoken with some of the persons directly responsible for publicity, and the general impression that I get from them is that their work would be made very much easier if the Standing Committee were, generally, to hold public meetings. The Licensing Board, as a quasi-judicial body, already automatically holds public sessions before, in effect, retiring in camera to discuss the decisions. These decisions themselves are announced usually on the same day. I suggest that this procedure could easily be adopted by the Standing Committee, a session open to the public first, and then, a session in camera to consider any confidential documents.
I suppose it could be said that the Report to the Urban Council each month by the Director of Urban Services and the Secretary of the Urban Council, is indirectly disclosing to the public the work of the Urban Council itself. But really, it is not so, it is the other way round, it is the Report to the Urban Council by two senior civil servants whose duty it is to be the executive limb of the Council. Nevertheless, neither are members of the Urban Council. Further, the Director does not even sit with the Urban Council in public meetings. By contrast however, he and the Secretary do attend the Standing Committee meetings, specially to answer questions and give advice. This report is also not in a form which could be taken by the press and published without much editing. Again, the statement by you, Mr. Chairman, generally concentrates on only one or two various subjects, at different meetings. It is not meant to be a statement involving the work done by all the various Select Committees over the past month.
I do not ask for the change I am proposing in this Motion to be made immediately. I realize that there are administrative difficulties which should be referred to the Administration Select Committee in the first instance. In particular, to see whether and what standing orders need to be altered, and indeed to see how best to hold such public meetings of the Standing Committee, in view of the practice at present of holding them in the informal atmosphere of the large committee room which may not, at least without alterations to that room, be large enough to admit the press and other members of the public as well. I do ask you however to approve in principle that the meetings of the Standing Committee of the Whole should be open to the public.
It is not just to show the public how much we actually do, but to lessen the communication gap that has arisen between the members of the public and the Urban Council. When the Government introduced the District Boards, I believe it deliberately organized them so that they could be seen by the public to be dealing with the matters appertaining to their districts in long public meetings where everything is discussed, the first day in the meeting and the next day by the public at large. The Urban Council needs to be seen to be playing a part, a very important part, in the local government life of Hong Kong. In my opinion, this can only be done by making the meetings of the Standing Committee of the Whole open to the public, except when matters of a confidential nature are under discussion.
Mr. Chairman, I so move.
MR. KWAN (in Cantonese):---Mr. Chairman, I rise to support the motion proposed by Mr. BERNACCHI. When the Central Government promoted the district administration policy, it wanted more public participation in policy making. That is why we have District Boards. In District Boards, all our meetings are open meetings so that more members of the public can join us or can attend the meetings. The Urban Council has a history of 100 years and we know that the Urban Council represents the views of the public, for example, today we have our guests from Yau Ma Tei and Mong Kok District Boards and they are observing the work of the Urban Council. I sincerely hope that in future, we can have members of the public attending the meetings of the Urban Council so that they can participate and have a chance to know our work.
MISS TAM (in English):--Mr. Chairman, I rise in response to Mr. BERNACCHI'S motion and the order paper and I must first say that personally, I agree with his observation on the need of showing the public the works and workings of the Urban Council, the narrowing down of the communication gap between the Council and those we serve. To be seen as an effective instrument in the
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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
(1) These officials no longer sat on our Council; and
(2) On the 14 August 1973, a Motion was passed that the Urban Council should delegate to its Standing Committee all the powers and functions of the Urban Council except, in effect, some of the financial powers. You, Mr. Chairman, have circulated to members, copies of a Motion that I moved, unsuccessfully, at the meeting of the 24 September 1974 to amend that delegation, in effect by bringing back into these public meetings such of those powers as would have previously been voted on in our open meetings. A lot of water has flown under the bridges of the Urban Council, since that date, and it is not my intention in this Motion to attempt to revive the Motion that was defeated in 1974. However, because of the retirement of several very senior members of the Government from our body, so that there is no longer anyone from the Administration to answer our questions, and because of this delegation of the powers and functions of our Urban Council to the Standing Committee, in recent years public meetings have been relatively short. The public has no real idea of the enormous amount of work done by the Urban Council, which is now largely approved, only, in the Standing Committee.
This system of working in silence for the last 10 years was possibly all very well when the Council was the only body dealing with local government. However, there are now the District Boards for comparison. Although these Boards themselves have committees dealing with various aspects of local government which concern the district, their committees submit reports to the District Boards at their public meetings, which therefore usually last for three to four hours. Indeed, so long that the Chairman takes a break in the middle for refreshments!
I have also spoken with some of the persons directly responsible for publicity, and the general impression that I get from them is that their work would be made very much easier if the Standing Committee were, generally, to hold public meetings. The Licensing Board, as a quasi-judicial body, already auto- matically holds public sessions before, in effect, retiring in camera to discuss the decisions. These decisions themselves are announced usually on the same day. I suggest that this procedure could casily be adopted by the Standing Committee, a session open to the public first, and then, a session in camera to consider any confidential documents.
I suppose it could be said that the Report to the Urban Council each month by the Director of Urban Services and the Secretary of the Urban Council, is indirectly disclosing to the public the work of the Urban Council itself. But really, it is not so, it is the other way round, it is the Report to the Urban Council by two senior civil servants whose duty it is to be the executive limb of the Council. Nevertheless, neither are members of the Urban Council. Further, the Director does not even sit with the Urban Council in public meetings. By contrast however, he and the Secretary do attend the Standing Committee meetings, specially to answer questions and give advice. This report is also not in a form which could be taken by the press and published without much
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
editing. Again, the statement by you, Mr. Chairman, generally concentrates on only one or two various subjects, at different meetings. It is not meant to be a statement involving the work done by all the various Select Committees over the
past month.
I do not ask for the change I am proposing in this Motion to be made immediately. I realize that there are administrative difficulties which should be referred to the Administration Select Committee in the first instance. In particular, to see whether and what standing orders need to be altered, and indeed to see how best to hold such public meetings of the Standing Committee, in view of the practice at present of holding them in the informal atmosphere of the large committee room which may not, at least without alterations to that room, be large enough to admit the press and other members of the public as well. I do ask you however to approve in principle that the meetings of the Standing Committee of the Whole should be open to the public.
It is not just to show the public how much we actually do, but to lessen the communication gap that has arisen between the members of the public and the Urban Council. When the Government introduced the District Boards, I believe it deliberately organized them so that they could be seen by the public to be dealing with the matters appertaining to their districts in long public meetings where everything is discussed, the first day in the meeting and the next day by the public at large. The Urban Council needs to be seen to be playing a part, a very important part, in the local government life of Hong Kong. In my opinion, this can only be done by making the meetings of the Standing Committee of the Whole open to the public, except when matters of a confidential nature are under discussion.
Mr. Chairman, I so move.
MR. KWAN (in Cantonese):---Mr. Chairman, I rise to support the motion proposed by Mr. BERNACCHI, When the Central Government promoted the district administration policy, it wanted more public participation in policy making. That is why we have District Boards. In District Boards, all our meetings are open meetings so that more members of the public can join us or can attend the meetings. The Urban Council has a history of 100 years and we know that the Urban Council represents the views of the public, for example, today we have our guests from Yau Ma Tei and Mong Kok District Boards and they are observing the work of the Urban Council. I sincerely hope that in future, we can have members of the public attending the meetings of the Urban Council so that they can participate and have a chance to know our work.
MISS TAM (in English):--Mr. Chairman, I rise in response to Mr. BERNACCHI'S motion and the order paper and I must first say that personally, I agree with his observation on the need of showing the public the works and workings of the Urban Council, the narrowing down of the communication gap between the Council and those we serve. To be seen as an effective instrument in the
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