Page 39 of 120
46
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
would be placed on solid grounds. Many people complained the officials in charge of issuing a licence. They seem to be in the habit of deterring applications, but since the Chairman of the Select Committee has stated in the reply that the U.S.D. had already had instructions to try their best to help applicants and six-month notice will be given to existing operators without a licence to make alterations and then shortly there would be periodic discussions and exchange of views with various industrial bodies, and if these conditions are complied with, I would risk and agree to the motion in the hope that time will prove that the promises made in proposing the motion are met, so that we will help those who operate canteens in factories to the benefit of factory works. If in carrying out the proposals, we adopt the former bureaucratic attitude, I will be very interested in six months' time to cancel the motion.
CHAIRMAN (in English):-Does anyone, who may not have spoken on this motion yet, wish to speak? Now may I ask Mr. Edmund CHOW to exercise his right of reply please.
MR. CHOW (in Cantonese):---Mr. Chairman, I have heard the opinions by my learned colleagues and of course I cannot remember them all even if my brain were a recorder, so I could only give a general reply to the points they raised. Now in my speech, I have replied to some question in advance, e.g. we have the legal responsibility to ensure the public level of hygiene. Of course, we all agree to that and this leads to the question that licensing could be a deterring effect. The workers might have to go out to eat in cooked food stalls. This point I do not pretend to agree because firstly, we know that the by-laws as amended are to ensure that factory canteens can serve all the workers in the same building as compared to the present system that the canteens can only serve workers from the same factory. Now, for example, there can be 10,000 workers in a factory building. If, according to the past regulation, the canteen might be able to serve only 1,000 workers in one factory, but according to the amended by-laws, the canteen can serve 10,000 workers instead. As to the fact that whether after licensing, there will not be any case of food poisoning. I have said already in my speech that when there are doctors, can it be guaranteed that people would not die because of sickness? As to the requirements of licensing, the Food Hygiene Select Committee has discussed this question in detail. I remember we discussed this for more than one hour in a single meeting. Members discussed this matter enthusiastically and that is why I proposed 3 reformative measures in my speech, e.g. we reduce the preparation room requirements to 15% of the gross area and other ancillary facilities are very flexible or even totally exempted, e.g. washing room requirements, washing room is a problem in factory buildings. According to our regulations there must be a certain number of washing rooms in a restaurant. Of course, it is impossible to regulate the requirement that factory canteens must have a certain number of washing rooms, so that we have decided that we would be as flexible as possible. Of course, the workers can go to their washing rooms in their own factories so that we would be very flexible. This proves we have discussed as to how to help the operators in detail. As for other difficulties, so long as they are not major ones, we have advised the U.S.D. to solve them as flexible as possible. I want to repeat that in the urban area we have about 60 factory canteens at present. After our survey, we discovered that some of them would not be able to get a licence, e.g. they are having their canteens in courtyards or in the back areas, but I am sure that there are no more than 10 or 15 of them. If they can move to other factory buildings, or they can improve their facilities, I am sure they are able to get a licence. Therefore, I think these amendments are very good to both the employees and the employers.
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
47
flexible as possible. Of course, the workers can go to their washing rooms in their own factories so that we would be very flexible. This proves we have discussed as to how to help the operators in detail. As for other difficulties, so long as they are not major ones, we have advised the U.S.D. to solve them as flexible as possible. I want to repeat that in the urban area we have about 60 factory canteens at present. After our survey, we discovered that some of them would not be able to get a licence, e.g. they are having their canteens in courtyards or in the back areas, but I am sure that there are no more than 10 or 15 of them. If they can move to other factory buildings, or they can improve their facilities, I am sure they are able to get a licence. Therefore, I think these amendments are very good to both the employees and the employers.
CHAIRMAN (in English):-The motion proposed by the Chairman and seconded by the Vice-Chairman of the Food Hygiene Select Committee has been referred by the proposal of Mrs. ELLIOTT and seconded by Dr. Denny HUANG. This is what you are going to vote on: not on the original motion but the motion to refer under Standing Order 21, paragraph 16. So, if you vote to refer, you vote yes. If you are against referral, you vote no. Then if the motion to refer is passed, the matter ends there. If the motion to refer is defeated, the Chair will call the main question. Is it clear to you? Now, if you vote to refer it to the Select Committee as proposed by Mrs. ELLIOTT and seconded by Dr. Denny HUANG, you vote yes. If you do not wish to refer, you vote no. Now, please press the button of your choice.
SECRETARY (in English):--19 voted. 6 yes, 12 no, 1 abstention.
CHAIRMAN (in English):-So the motion to refer has been defeated. Now I will call for a vote on the motion as appearing on the agenda paper under item 5 section (1), proposed by Mr. Edmund CHOW, seconded by Mr. C. S. SHUM.
The question was put.
The motion was carried with 14 votes for, 4 against and 1 abstention. (The Chairman did not vote.)
2. MR. KENNETH T. C. Lo, CHAIRMAN OF THE RECREATION SELECT COMMITTEE, moved the following motion:-
"RESOLVED that the Pleasure Grounds (Amendment) By-laws 1980 be made under section 109 of the Public Health and Urban Services Ordinance, Cap. 132."
He said (in English):-Mr. Chairman, as Chairman of the Recreation Select Committee, I rise on the motion standing in my name:
Page 39 of 120
Page 39 of 120
46
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
would be placed on solid grounds. Many people complained the officials in charge of issuing a licence. They seem to be in the habit of deterring applications, but since the Chairman of the Select Committee has stated in the reply that the U.S.D. had already had instructions to try their best to help applicants and six-month notice will be given to existing operators without a licence to make alterations and then shortly there would be periodic discussions and exchange of views with various industrial bodies, and if these conditions are complied with, I would risk and agree to the motion in the hope that time will prove that the promises made in proposing the motion are met, so that we will help those who operate canteens in factories to the benefit of factory works. If in carrying out the proposals, we adopt the former bureaucratic attitude, I will be very interested in six months' time to cancel the motion.
CHAIRMAN (in English):-Does anyone, who may not have spoken on this motion yet, wish to speak? Now may I ask Mr. Edmund CHOW to exercise his right of reply please.
MR. CHOW (in Cantonese):---Mr. Chairman, I have heard the opinions by my learned colleagues and of course I cannot remember them all even if my brain were a recorder, so I could only give a general reply to the points they raised. Now in my speech, I have replied to some question in advance, e.g. we have the legal responsibility to ensure the public level of hygiene. Of course, we all agree to that and this leads to the question that licensing could be a deterring effect. The workers might have to go out to eat in cooked food stalls. This point I do not pretend to agree because firstly, we know that the by-laws as amended are to ensure that factory canteens can serve all the workers in the same building as compared to the present system that the canteens can only serve workers from the same factory. Now, for example, there can be 10,000 workers in a factory building. If, according to the past regulation, the canteen might be able to serve only 1,000 workers in one factory, but according to the amended by-laws, the canteen can serve 10,000 workers instead. As to the fact that whether after licensing, there will not be any case of food poisoning. I have said already in my speech that when there are doctors, can it be guaranteed that people would not die because of sickness? As to the requirements of licensing, the Food Hygiene Select Committee has discussed this question in detail. I remember we discussed this for more than one hour in a single meeting. Members discussed this matter enthusiastically and that is why I proposed 3 reformative measures in my speech, e.g. we reduce the preparation room requirements to 15% of the gross area and other ancillary facilities are very flexible or even totally exempted, e.g. washing room requirements, washing room is a problem in factory buildings. According to our regulations there must be a certain number of washing rooms in a restaurant. Of course, it is impossible to regulate the requirement that factory canteens must have a cer- tain number of washing rooms, so that we have decided that we would be as
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
Page 39 of 120
47
flexible as possible. Of course, the workers can go to their washing rooms in their own factories so that we would be very flexible. This proves we have discussed as to how to help the operators in detail. As for other difficulties, so long as they are not major ones, we have advised the U.S.D. to solve them as flexible as possible. I want to repeat that in the urban area we have about 60 factory canteens at present. After our survey, we discovered that some of them would not be able to get a licence, e.g. they are having their canteens in courtyards or in the back areas, but I am sure that there are no more than 10 or 15 of them. If they can move to other factory buildings, or they can improve their facilities, I am sure they are able to get a licence. Therefore, I think these amendments are very good to both the employees and the employers.
CHAIRMAN (in English):-The motion proposed by the Chairman and seconded by the Vice-Chairman of the Food Hygiene Select Committee has been referred by the proposal of Mrs. ELLIOTT and seconded by Dr. Denny HUANG. This is what you are going to vote on: not on the original motion but the motion to refer under Standing Order 21, paragraph 16. So, if you vote to refer, you vote yes. If you are against referral, you vote no. Then if the motion to refer is passed, the matter ends there. If the motion to refer is defeated, the Chair will call the main question. Is it clear to you? Now, if you vote to refer it to the Select Committee as proposed by Mrs. ELLIOTT and seconded by Dr. Denny HUANG, you vote yes. If you do not wish to refer, you vote no. Now, please press the button of your choice.
SECRETARY (in English):--19 voted. 6 yes, 12 no, 1 abstention.
CHAIRMAN (in English):-So the motion to refer has been defeated. Now I will call for a vote on the motion as appearing on the agenda paper under item 5 section (1), proposed by Mr. Edmund CHOW, seconded by Mr. C. S. SHUM.
The question was put.
The motion was carried with 14 votes for, 4 against and 1 abstention. (The Chairman did not vote.)
2. MR. KENNETH T. C. Lo, CHAIRMAN OF THE RECREATION SELECT COM- MITTEE, moved the following motion:-
"RESOLVED that the Pleasure Grounds (Amendment) By-laws 1980 be made under section 109 of the Public Health and Urban Services Ordinance, Cap. 132."
He said (in English):-Mr. Chairman, as Chairman of the Recreation Select Committee, I rise on the motion standing in my name:
.
Page 39 of 12
No comments yet.
Private notes are available after approval.