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MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):—Mr. Chairman, what policy? If there is no limitation on size, what is the purpose of marking them out, just a waste of time?
DR. HU (in English):—Our policy is to carry out Hawker Permitted Areas business lawfully for the benefit of Hong Kong. That is our policy.
MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):—Mr. Chairman, can Mr. Hu tell us how he carries out the policy smoothly if we mark our sites 3′ × 4′ and the hawkers ignore them and take, I have seen, 80 sq. ft.?
DR. HU (in English):—There is no such thing as 80 sq. ft. The purpose of marking is just to limit the size of each stall.
MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):—Mr. Chairman, so the Chairman of the Select Committee accepts that these sites are supposed to limit people in size?
DR. HU (in English):—It may be the case, but that, of course, the Urban Services Department would know better. But certainly we do not wish, as any Member of the Urban Council knows, any individual hawkers to occupy larger sites. Therefore, there is the legalized size that each hawker stall should be 3' x 4'.
MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):—Mr. Chairman, I hate to battle on this question, but it seems to me that we mark out our sites, and I would like to have a clear answer from Mr. Hu whether these sites are marked out for "one hawker, one site" or whether we just mark them out and say "Go and take as many sites as you like" and we shut our eyes?
DR. HU (in English):—Mr. Chairman, as I have said we mark out the sites just to facilitate the Urban Services Department to carry out the Council's policy.
MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):—Mr. Chairman, I can see there is no need to carry on that question and gain no further ground. May I refer to B(ii) that some hawkers occupy 8 sites or more? I can assure you last Friday, when I was there, I saw some and I measured them with my eyes which are pretty accurate—at least 8′ x 10′, some bigger. In that case, Mr. Chairman, may I ask if Mr. Hu knows it? He said that the hawkers concerned are expanding their business. Some hawkers cannot get a site at all. Does it satisfy you that some cannot get any and another can take 80 sq. ft. which I saw with my own eyes?
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL.
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CHAIRMAN (in English):—That is an expression of opinion.
MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):—I only asked him if he is satisfied, that is all.
CHAIRMAN (in English):—It is seeking an expression of opinion to ask whether he is satisfied or not. I will otherwise continue to give you the floor for your supplementaries.
MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):—Regarding page 2, C. $3,237 is not very much in terms of daily expenditure but that is about a little less than $1.2 million a year. This brings in no income, is it fair to use public money?
DR. HU (in English):—I think it is fair because we regulate a certain area to have this Hawker Permitted Area to go on smoothly.
MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):—Does the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee have any plan for these hawkers to pay their own expenses?
DR. HU (in English):—We have an overall plan to solve this problem. Of course if the Council decides as a licensing policy, these people should pay higher licence fees. But the final decision depends on other factors.
MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):—Among the duties of the overseer in the Hawker Permitted Areas, I see there is no mention of policy. Does that mean that the General Duties Teams do not have the responsibility to see that the "first come, first served" principle is observed?
DR. HU (in English):—General Duties Teams have overall responsibilities to clear the sites in Hawker Permitted Area or in other areas, but they have no power to arrest any hawker there.
MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):—Mr. Chairman, I was not talking about arrest. We have a policy of "first come, first served", is there no one there can make sure that this policy is carried out?
DR. HU (in English):—As the "first come, first served" is not included in the duties, I presume that probably is not specifically done. But they certainly have an overall general duty to see that the Council's policy is carried out.
MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):—Mr. Chairman, would you inquire why they do not see that this part of the policy being carried out?
Page 21 of 135
Page 21 of 135
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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):-Mr. Chairman, what policy? If there is no limitation on size, what is the purpose of marking them out, just a waste of time?
DR. HU (in English): —Our policy is to carry out Hawker Permitted Areas business lawfully for the benefit of Hong Kong. That is our policy.
MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):-Mr. Chairman, can Mr. Hu tell us how he carries out the policy smoothly if we mark our sites 3′ × 4′ and the hawkers ignore them and take, I have seen, 80 sq. ft.?
DR. HU (in English):-There is no such thing as 80 sq. ft. The purpose of marking is just to limit the size of each stall.
MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):—Mr. Chairman, so the Chairman of the Select Committee accepts that these sites are supposed to limit people in size?
DR. HU (in English):-It may be the case, but that, of course, the Urban Services Department would know better. But certainly we do not wish, as any Member of the Urban Council knows, any individual hawkers to occupy larger sites. Therefore, there is the legalized size that each hawker stall should be 3' x 4'.
MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):—Mr. Chairman, I hate to battle on this question, but it seems to me that we mark out our sites, and I would like to have a clear answer from Mr. Hu whether these sites are marked out for "one hawker, one site" or whether we just mark them out and say "Go and take as many sites as you like" and we shut our eyes?
DR. HU (in English):-Mr. Chairman, as I have said we mark out the sites just to facilitate the Urban Services Department to carry out the Council's policy.
MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):-Mr. Chairman, I can see there is no need to carry on that question and gain no further ground. May I refer to B(ii) that some hawkers occupy 8 sites or more? I can assure you last Friday, when I was there, I saw some and I measured them with my eyes which are pretty accurate—at least 8′ x 10′, some bigger. In that case, Mr. Chairman, may I ask if Mr. Hu knows it? He said that the hawkers concerned are expanding their business. Some hawkers cannot get a site at all. Does it satisfy you that some cannot get any and another can take 80 sq. ft. which I saw with my own eyes?
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL.
11
CHAIRMAN (in English):-That is an expression of opinion.
MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):-I only asked him if he is satisfied, that is all.
CHAIRMAN (in English):-It is seeking an expression of opinion to ask whether he is satisfied or not. I will otherwise continue to give you the floor for your supplementaries.
MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):-Regarding page 2, C. $3,237 is not very much in terms of daily expenditure but that is about a little less than $1.2 million a year. This brings in no income, is it fair to use public money?
DR. HU (in English):-I think it is fair because we regulate a certain area to have this Hawker Permitted Area to go on smoothly.
MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):-Does the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee have any plan for these hawkers to pay their own expenses?
DR. HU (in English):-We have an overall plan to solve this problem. Of course if the Council decides as a licensing policy, these people should pay higher licence fees. But the final decision depends
on other factors.
MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):---Among the duties of the overseer in the Hawker Permitted Areas, I see there is no mention of policy. Does that mean that the General Duties Teams do not have the responsibility to see that the "first come, first served" principle is observed?
DR. HU (in English): -General Duties Teams have overall respon- sibilities to clear the sites in Hawker Permitted Area or in other areas, but they have no power to arrest any hawker there.
MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):-Mr. Chairman, I was not talking about arrest. We have a policy of "first come, first served", is there no one there can make sure that this policy is carried out?
DR. HU (in English):-As the "first come, first served" is not included in the duties, I presume that probably is not specifically done. But they certainly have an overall general duty to see that the Council's policy is carried out.
MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):-Mr. Chairman, would you inquire why they do not see that this part of the policy being carried out?
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