1976 — Page 20

Urban Council Proceedings 市政局議事錄 All AI Reviewed

Page 20 of 135

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

MRS. E. ELLIOTT (in English):- Mr. Chairman, I have quite a lot of supplementaries. The first concerns A(ii). Mr. Hu replied that people occupy the same bus seats every day. Obviously Mr. Hu does not travel on the bus. Being so crowded people can never occupy the same seats. Therefore I suggest that they don't occupy the same hawker sites in the street. It says here "Presumably custom and mutual arrangement", can you tell me who does arrange this mutual arrangement?

DR. HU (in English):- Mrs. ELLIOTT is not right. I have no car and no chauffeur. (Laughter) I either walk or take a bus anywhere in Hong Kong, Kowloon and New Territories. So I know very well, but this really is just a joke, of course. The point is that really no full explanation could be given as I have already said in my answer.

MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):- Mr. Chairman, may I ask the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee if he would find out the answer? There are people there every day who could give me an answer, I believe.

DR. HU (in English):- If I can find out the answer, certainly I will let you know. (Laughter)

MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):- Mr. Chairman, may I remind the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee that I have given the answer, but he does not accept it.

CHAIRMAN (in English):- Yes, I am sure Mr. Hu will be glad to give your answer to the Hawkers Select Committee.

MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):- Mr. Chairman, in A(iii), it says the Urban Services Department has had no complaints, that is utterly untrue. Did you know that there had been complaints made not only by myself, but by other Councillors, by the press, by hawkers to the Police, to the U.S.D. and also the C.D.O.?

DR. HU (in English):- Yes, of course, there are very general complaints. It would be difficult for anybody to take the matter further. We take notice of these complaints although they were of a general nature.

MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):- Mr. Chairman, I am not going to accept the word "general". They were very specific giving names.

DR. HU (in English):- Certainly if there are names, we would be glad to accept the names supplied by anybody including Mrs. ELLIOTT.

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):- Mr. Chairman, in that case, can the Chairman explain why he has said that the Urban Services Department has had no complaints?

DR. HU (in English):- No complaints, of course, no specific complaints. If there is any specific complaint, we already passed to the Police.

MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):- Mr. Chairman, B(i) says that sites are not allocated and there is no enforcement of "one hawker, one site”, then could the Chairman of the Select Committee tell me why we took the trouble and personnel at the time to mark out sites of 3' X 4' right along the street?

DR. HU (in English):- We leave the administration of the Hawker Permitted Areas, rather any hawker areas, to the Department to carry out the policy. And so far, in my humble view, everything runs smoothly. We should give the credit of enforcement to the Urban Services Department. It may be that the Urban Services Department marked out sites of 3′ × 4′, it may be necessary for them to carry out the Urban Council's policy.

MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):- Mr. Chairman, may I ask is it not correct that these sites were marked out because some people were taking too much space, therefore we marked them out so that people do not take all that space?

DR. HU (in English):- I understand that we did not give any hawkers in the Hawker Permitted Areas any marked site. Of course the Urban Services Department would take note that some hawkers may occupy too large a site, therefore they should reduce their site. I think there is no marked sites there.

MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):- Mr. Chairman, may I suggest that Mr. Hu goes to have a look because I went there just last Friday and sites were marked out on the street (3' X 4' sites). The whole length of the street. They wrote a number with an “A” and the number thereafter. These were marked out, as far as I remember, because people were taking too much space. Would Mr. Hu please reply to the Council?

DR. HU (in English):- I understand, Mr. Chairman, the position is that these are marked, of course, only to facilitate the Urban Services Department to carry out the Council's policy as I said at the very beginning.

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Page 20 of 135 8 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL MRS. E. ELLIOTT (in English):- Mr. Chairman, I have quite a lot of supplementaries. The first concerns A(ii). Mr. Hu replied that people occupy the same bus seats every day. Obviously Mr. Hu does not travel on the bus. Being so crowded people can never occupy the same seats. Therefore I suggest that they don't occupy the same hawker sites in the street. It says here "Presumably custom and mutual arrangement", can you tell me who does arrange this mutual arrangement? DR. HU (in English):- Mrs. ELLIOTT is not right. I have no car and no chauffeur. (Laughter) I either walk or take a bus anywhere in Hong Kong, Kowloon and New Territories. So I know very well, but this really is just a joke, of course. The point is that really no full explanation could be given as I have already said in my answer. MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):- Mr. Chairman, may I ask the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee if he would find out the answer? There are people there every day who could give me an answer, I believe. DR. HU (in English):- If I can find out the answer, certainly I will let you know. (Laughter) MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):- Mr. Chairman, may I remind the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee that I have given the answer, but he does not accept it. CHAIRMAN (in English):- Yes, I am sure Mr. Hu will be glad to give your answer to the Hawkers Select Committee. MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):- Mr. Chairman, in A(iii), it says the Urban Services Department has had no complaints, that is utterly untrue. Did you know that there had been complaints made not only by myself, but by other Councillors, by the press, by hawkers to the Police, to the U.S.D. and also the C.D.O.? DR. HU (in English):- Yes, of course, there are very general complaints. It would be difficult for anybody to take the matter further. We take notice of these complaints although they were of a general nature. MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):- Mr. Chairman, I am not going to accept the word "general". They were very specific giving names. DR. HU (in English):- Certainly if there are names, we would be glad to accept the names supplied by anybody including Mrs. ELLIOTT. HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 9 MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):- Mr. Chairman, in that case, can the Chairman explain why he has said that the Urban Services Department has had no complaints? DR. HU (in English):- No complaints, of course, no specific complaints. If there is any specific complaint, we already passed to the Police. MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):- Mr. Chairman, B(i) says that sites are not allocated and there is no enforcement of "one hawker, one site”, then could the Chairman of the Select Committee tell me why we took the trouble and personnel at the time to mark out sites of 3' X 4' right along the street? DR. HU (in English):- We leave the administration of the Hawker Permitted Areas, rather any hawker areas, to the Department to carry out the policy. And so far, in my humble view, everything runs smoothly. We should give the credit of enforcement to the Urban Services Department. It may be that the Urban Services Department marked out sites of 3′ × 4′, it may be necessary for them to carry out the Urban Council's policy. MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):- Mr. Chairman, may I ask is it not correct that these sites were marked out because some people were taking too much space, therefore we marked them out so that people do not take all that space? DR. HU (in English):- I understand that we did not give any hawkers in the Hawker Permitted Areas any marked site. Of course the Urban Services Department would take note that some hawkers may occupy too large a site, therefore they should reduce their site. I think there is no marked sites there. MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):- Mr. Chairman, may I suggest that Mr. Hu goes to have a look because I went there just last Friday and sites were marked out on the street (3' X 4' sites). The whole length of the street. They wrote a number with an “A” and the number thereafter. These were marked out, as far as I remember, because people were taking too much space. Would Mr. Hu please reply to the Council? DR. HU (in English):- I understand, Mr. Chairman, the position is that these are marked, of course, only to facilitate the Urban Services Department to carry out the Council's policy as I said at the very beginning. Page 20 Page 21 Page 21

Baseline (Original)

Page 20 of 135 8 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL MRS. E. ELLIOTT (in English):-Mr. Chairman, I have quite a lot of supplementaries. The first concerns A(ii). Mr. Hu replied that people occupy the same bus seats every day. Obviously Mr. Hu does not travel on the bus. Being so crowded people can never occupy the same seats. Therefore I suggest that they don't occupy the same hawker sites in the street. It says here "Presumably custom and mutual arrangement", can you tell me who does arrange this mutual arrange- ment? DR. HU (in English):-Mrs. ELLIOTT is not right. I have no car and no chauffeur. (Laughter) I either walk or take a bus anywhere in Hong Kong, Kowloon and New Territories. So I know very well, but this really is just a joke, of course. The point is that really no full explanation could be given as I have already said in my answer. MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):-Mr. Chairman, may I ask the Chair- man of the Hawkers Select Committee if he would find out the answer? There are people there every day who could give me an answer, I believe. DR. HU (in English):-If I can find out the answer, certainly I will let you know. (Laughter) MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):-Mr. Chairman, may I remind the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee that I have given the answer, but he does not accept it. CHAIRMAN (in English):-Yes, I am sure Mr. Hu will be glad to give your answer to the Hawkers Select Committee. MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):-Mr. Chairman, in A(iii), it says the Urban Services Department has had no complaints, that is utterly untrue. Did you know that there had been complaints made not only by myself, but by other Councillors, by the press, by hawkers to the Police, to the U.S.D. and also the C.D.O.? DR. HU (in English):-Yes, of course, there are very general com- plaints. It would be difficult for anybody to take the matter further. We take notice of these complaints although they were of a general nature. MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):---Mr. Chairman, I am not going to accept the word "general". They were very specific giving names. DR. HU (in English):-Certainly if there are names, we would be glad to accept the names supplied by anybody including Mrs. ELLIOTT. HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 9 MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):---Mr. Chairman, in that case, can the Chairman explain why he has said that the Urban Services Department has had no complaints? DR. HU (in English): -No complaints, of course, no specific com- plaints. If there is any specific complaint, we already passed to the Police. MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):---Mr. Chairman, B(i) says that sites are not allocated and there is no enforcement of "one hawker, one site”, then could the Chairman of the Select Committee tell me why we took the trouble and personnel at the time to mark out sites of 3' X 4' right along the street? DR. HU (in English):---We leave the administration of the Hawker Permitted Areas, rather any hawker areas, to the Department to carry out the policy. And so far, in my humble view, everything runs smoothly. We should give the credit of enforcement to the Urban Services Department. It may be that the Urban Services Department marked out sites of 3′ × 4′, it may be necessary for them to carry out the Urban Council's policy. MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):-Mr. Chairman, may I ask is it not correct that these sites were marked out because some people were taking too much space, therefore we marked them out so that people do not take all that space? DR. HU (in English):-I understand that we did not give any hawkers in the Hawker Permitted Areas any marked site. Of course the Urban Services Department would take note that some hawkers may occupy too large a site, therefore they should reduce their site. I think there is no marked sites there. MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):—Mr. Chairman, may I suggest that Mr. Hu goes to have a look because I went there just last Friday and sites were marked out on the street (3' X 4' sites). The whole length of the street. They wrote a number with an “A” and the number thereafter. These were marked out, as far as I remember, because people were taking too much space. Would Mr. Hu please reply to the Council? DR. HU (in English):-I understand, Mr. Chairman, the position is that these are marked, of course, only to facilitate the Urban Services Department to carry out the Council's policy as I said at the very beginning. Page 20Page 21

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Page 20 of 135

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

MRS. E. ELLIOTT (in English):-Mr. Chairman, I have quite a lot of supplementaries. The first concerns A(ii). Mr. Hu replied that people occupy the same bus seats every day. Obviously Mr. Hu does not travel on the bus. Being so crowded people can never occupy the same seats. Therefore I suggest that they don't occupy the same hawker sites in the street. It says here "Presumably custom and mutual arrangement", can you tell me who does arrange this mutual arrange- ment?

DR. HU (in English):-Mrs. ELLIOTT is not right. I have no car and no chauffeur. (Laughter) I either walk or take a bus anywhere in Hong Kong, Kowloon and New Territories. So I know very well, but this really is just a joke, of course. The point is that really no full explanation could be given as I have already said in my answer.

MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):-Mr. Chairman, may I ask the Chair- man of the Hawkers Select Committee if he would find out the answer? There are people there every day who could give me an answer, I believe.

DR. HU (in English):-If I can find out the answer, certainly I will let you know. (Laughter)

MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):-Mr. Chairman, may I remind the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee that I have given the answer, but he does not accept it.

CHAIRMAN (in English):-Yes, I am sure Mr. Hu will be glad to give your answer to the Hawkers Select Committee.

MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):-Mr. Chairman, in A(iii), it says the Urban Services Department has had no complaints, that is utterly untrue. Did you know that there had been complaints made not only by myself, but by other Councillors, by the press, by hawkers to the Police, to the U.S.D. and also the C.D.O.?

DR. HU (in English):-Yes, of course, there are very general com- plaints. It would be difficult for anybody to take the matter further. We take notice of these complaints although they were of a general

nature.

MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):---Mr. Chairman, I am not going to accept the word "general". They were very specific giving names.

DR. HU (in English):-Certainly if there are names, we would be glad to accept the names supplied by anybody including Mrs. ELLIOTT.

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):---Mr. Chairman, in that case, can the Chairman explain why he has said that the Urban Services Department has had no complaints?

DR. HU (in English): -No complaints, of course, no specific com- plaints. If there is any specific complaint, we already passed to the Police.

MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):---Mr. Chairman, B(i) says that sites are not allocated and there is no enforcement of "one hawker, one site”, then could the Chairman of the Select Committee tell me why we took the trouble and personnel at the time to mark out sites of 3' X 4' right along the street?

DR. HU (in English):---We leave the administration of the Hawker Permitted Areas, rather any hawker areas, to the Department to carry out the policy. And so far, in my humble view, everything runs smoothly. We should give the credit of enforcement to the Urban Services Department. It may be that the Urban Services Department marked out sites of 3′ × 4′, it may be necessary for them to carry out the Urban Council's policy.

MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):-Mr. Chairman, may I ask is it not correct that these sites were marked out because some people were taking too much space, therefore we marked them out so that people do not take all that space?

DR. HU (in English):-I understand that we did not give any hawkers in the Hawker Permitted Areas any marked site. Of course the Urban Services Department would take note that some hawkers may occupy too large a site, therefore they should reduce their site. I think there is no marked sites there.

MRS. ELLIOTT (in English):—Mr. Chairman, may I suggest that Mr. Hu goes to have a look because I went there just last Friday and sites were marked out on the street (3' X 4' sites). The whole length of the street. They wrote a number with an “A” and the number thereafter. These were marked out, as far as I remember, because people were taking too much space. Would Mr. Hu please reply to the Council?

DR. HU (in English):-I understand, Mr. Chairman, the position is that these are marked, of course, only to facilitate the Urban Services Department to carry out the Council's policy as I said at the very beginning.

1976 — Page 20

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