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hour more to shopkeepers so that they could have free access to their shops in the whole morning. The other way which we considered and will probably apply to the complaints from the Shunning Street shopkeepers is to allocate certain areas in the street which could have free access for the cars or any visitors so as to alleviate the hardship of the shops. We will probably discuss this question again when we meet in the very near future.
MR. MACKENZIE (in English): Mr. Chairman, may I ask what measures have been taken to avoid recurrence of the chaotic scenes which occurred in Shunning Road, Sham Shui Po in the morning of 20th February?
MR. HU (in English): Shunning Street is the street where there are already a lot of hawkers. Our ways to handle this problem are: firstly, we have already told those hawkers who have a longstanding in those streets don't need to have any fear and they will remain there. About the new hawkers, only a limited static hawkers, we, of course, have the so called G.D. Teams. We try to help hawkers when they are hawking, but the experimental scheme is to let hawkers trade freely within the Hawker Permitted Areas no matter whether they have a licence or not. This idea, of course, has not been universally accepted. Many people are against it. Many, of course will probably oppose it. But this is a new idea, we are now experimenting. It may be a good idea to solve our problem. That is the way to handle the hawkers in Shunning Street.
MR. MACKENZIE (in English): Mr. Chairman, is the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee in a position to give any assurance that the representation of persons whose interests may be affected by the creation of these hawker permitted zones will be considered before implementation of this scheme?
MR. HU (in English): Yes, we have already taken their views or their complaints into consideration. As I have said, the Tung Choi Street one, we give them one hour more. And about the Shunning Street shopkeepers, we also tried to solve their hardship by allowing cars to go in, so I think we have taken their views into consideration. I can assure the Council that their complaints or their views will be taken into consideration in future.
MR. TSIN SAI-NIN (in Cantonese): Mr. Chairman, I heard what Mr. Hu has said, but I have two supplementaries. Firstly, is it that the Hawkers Select Committee feels sure that this new scheme will not lead to greater troubles and if there are more serious troubles, has the Committee found out some means of solving it? Secondly, Mr. Hu mentioned that those who have been trading there for a long time need not have any worries, but how are we going to make sure that they have been trading there for such a long time and who is going to make sure? And if the hawkers think that they have been trading there for a long time and the Urban Services Department think that they are not, where are they going to complain?
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
MR. HU (in English): We, of course, have very carefully considered the various aspects of this scheme. We consider that there will be no problem or any confusion as Mr. TSIN has now just said. About the second question on the decision of who are the longstanding hawkers, we have a 1970 survey which is important in this respect, because if the hawkers were hawking there in that survey at that time, then we tried to give them the static status. In other words, they have stalls there. Those hawkers are naturally under protection. Of course, there are also other hawkers who have no so-called static status, in other words, they have no stall there, yet if they can prove that they were hawking there for a long time, we, the Select Committee, of course, will treat them as if they were hawking there.
MR. HILTON CHEONG-LEEN (in English): Mr. Chairman, will the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee confirm that the Select Committee have at all times kept in mind the interests of shopkeepers and that, within the experimental hawker permitted areas, the Committee has considered the interests of both the shopkeepers and the hawkers, bearing in mind that the situation varies from district to district?
MR. HU (in English): Yes, thank you Mr. CHEONG-LEEN for raising this question. We always take this into consideration but unfortunately, as I have said, their interests cannot at all times be reconciled. We will try our best to do what is right for the community.
MR. B. A. BERNACCHI (in English): Mr. Chairman, the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee started his answer by saying that the new hawker permitted scheme is being conducted as an experiment, why is it apparently that the Hong Kong Island is being excluded from the scheme? I know the answer, but I feel that the public have the right to know too.
MR. HU (in English): Mr. Chairman, we originally intended to have one area in Hong Kong. Later there were other factors beyond our control, so we cannot at this moment have this experiment on Hong Kong Island.
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hour more to shopkeepers so that they could have free access to their shops in the whole morning. The other way which we considered and will probably apply to the complaints from the Shunning Street shop- keepers is to allocate certain areas in the street which could have free access for the cars or any visitors so as to alleviate the hardship of the shops. We will probably discuss this question again when we meet in the very near future.
MR. MACKENZIE (in English):-Mr. Chairman, may I ask what measures have been taken to avoid recurrence of the chaotic scenes which occurred in Shunning Road, Sham Shui Po in the morning of 20th February?
MR. HU (in English):-Shunning Street is the street where there are already a lot of hawkers. Our ways to handle this problem are: firstly, we have already told those hawkers who have a longstanding in those streets don't need to have any fear and they will remain there. About the new hawkers, only a limited static hawkers, we, of course, have the so called G.D. Teams. We try to help hawkers when they are hawking, but the experimental scheme is to let hawkers trade freely within the Hawker Permitted Areas no matter whether they have a licence or not. This idea, of course, has not been universally accepted. Many people are against it. Many, of course will probably oppose it. But this is a new idea, we are now experimenting. It may be a good idea to solve our problem. That is the way to handle the hawkers in Shunning Street.
MR. MACKENZIE (in English):-Mr. Chairman, is the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee in a position to give any assurance that the representation of persons whose interests may be affected by the creation of these hawker permitted zones will be considered before implementation of this scheme?
MR. HU (in English):-Yes, we have already taken their views or their complaints into consideration. As I have said, the Tung Choi Street one, we give them one hour more. And about the Shunning Street shopkeepers, we also tried to solve their hardship by allowing cars to go in, so I think we have taken their views into consideration. I can assure the Council that their complaints or their views will be taken into consideration in future.
MR. TSIN SAI-NIN (in Cantonese):-Mr. Chairman, I heard what Mr. Hu has said, but I have two supplementaries. Firstly, is it that the Hawkers Select Committee feels sure that this new scheme will not lead to greater troubles and if there are more serious troubles, has the Committee found out some means of solving it? Secondly, Mr. Hu
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mentioned that those who have been trading there for a long time need not have any worries, but how are we going to make sure that they have been trading there for such a long time and who is going to make sure? And if the hawkers think that they have been trading there for a long time and the Urban Services Department think that they are not, where are they going to complain?
MR. HU (in English):-We, of course, have very carefully con- sidered the various aspects of this scheme. We consider that there will be no problem or any confusion as Mr. TSIN has now just said. About the second question on the decision of who are the longstanding haw- kers, we have a 1970 survey which is important in this respect, because if the hawkers were hawking there in that survey at that time, then we tried to give them the static status. In other words, they have stalls there. Those hawkers are naturally under protection. Of course, there are also other hawkers who have no so-called static status, in other words, they have no stall there, yet if they can prove that they were hawking there for a long time, we, the Select Committee, of course, will treat them as if they were hawking there.
MR. HILTON CHEONG-LEEN (in English):-Mr. Chairman, will the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee confirm that the Select Committee have at all times kept in mind the interests of shopkeepers and that, within the experimental hawker permitted areas, the Com- mittee has considered the interests of both the shopkeepers and the hawkers, bearing in mind that the situation varies from district to district?
MR. HU (in English): Yes, thank you Mr. CHEONG-LEEN for rais- ing this question. We always take this into consideration but unfor- tunately, as I have said, their interests cannot at all times as reconciled. We will try our best to do what is right for the community.
MR. B. A. BERNACCHI (in English):-Mr. Chairman, the Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee started his answer by saying that the new hawker permitted scheme is being conducted as an experiment, why is it apparently that the Hong Kong Island is being excluded from the scheme? I know the answer, but I feel that the public have the right to know too.
MR. HU (in English):-Mr. Chairman, we originally intended to have one area in Hong Kong. Later there were other factors beyond our control, so we cannot at this moment have this experiment on Hong
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