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been a very important subject to consider. I think, Mr. Chairman, if you remember, about three years ago we had a joint meeting to consider the size of the Museum even with pictures on the wall and photographs projected, and eventually we chose a site and that site was later found not to be practicable and later we were offered a site in Kowloon, and last year we were told in this Council that it may at least be three or five more years before the initial stage of the construction work could be started. We were also told, Mr. Chairman, that there was a lot of planning as to how the Museum should be set up, and what kind of things we should purchase or obtain to make our Museum worthwhile and this offered tremendous work. Mr. Chairman, it is also a fact, as Mr. BERNACCHI said, that we have always had outside people to assist us because many of the things are rather special things. So, as for the work of the Museum, I should think, it is not only that we have a lot of work to do at the moment, but it also needs a lot of planning, not only the planning of the building itself, but the planning of how this Museum should be presented to the public.
About the planning itself, I think it should have a separate Select Committee to do this planning work, especially the planning of the Museum which has been a very important item for many years. I think Mr. BERNACCHI's motion does have merit in it. I wish the members could consider it carefully, not because we just started with this new amendment which we cannot change. If you think, Mr. Chairman, that Mr. BERNACCHI's motion has merit in it, I do think there is merit in it, I would ask the members to vote for it and probably we could consider it further in the Committee as a Whole, or in the Cultural Select Committee, whether we should have a separate committee to deal with Museum affairs. With these remarks, Mr. Chairman, I support the motion.
DR. HUANG: Mr. Chairman, I think Mr. BERNACCHI put forward fair reasons to show that we really need a separate Select Committee. Unfortunately, he did not emphasize these points before the whole Council agreed to the new committees. On the other hand, I think Mr. T. S. Lo made a good point that at least we all agreed to have this Committee only six months ago. I think we must give the new Select Committee a chance. That is why I abstain from voting.
MR. FORSGATE: Mr. Chairman, Dr. HUANG has made one of the two points I intended to make. The other point is that Mr. BERNACCHI, Miss YEUNG in seconding the motion and Mr. Hu have made a great deal with the advice of experts is no longer available to the Cultural Affairs Committee. Could I have clarification of that, because that seems to me an extraordinary statement for three people to make?
MR. BERNACCHI: I do not think that anybody is suggesting that the advice of experts is not now available. I say, in fact I think that
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Miss YEUNG elaborated on my theme, that it is an insult to the advisers, to be advisers of a subject that is only one limb of the work of a committee, that it is mainly designed to operate the day-to-day business of the City Hall.
MR. HU: Mr. Chairman, I think Mr. FORSGATE did make a mistake concerning this remark from me. May I make it quite clear, I never said that. I wish Mr. FORSGATE would withdraw this remark as far as I am concerned.
MR. FORSGATE: Of course, if Mr. Hu did not make the remarks, then I could not possibly have heard him. (Laughter).
MR. HU: Could you make a ruling, Mr. Chairman, did I make this remark or not? If I did not make it, I think I am reasonable in asking Mr. FORSGATE to withdraw. (Laughter).
CHAIRMAN: I am sure you know what you said, Mr. Hu. (Laughter).
MR. HU: Mr. Chairman, you are ruling in front of all these gentlemen and ladies. Do you think I did make a mistake, of course if he doesn't need to withdraw, it depends on you Mr. Chairman, to say whether he is right or I am right?
CHAIRMAN: You have heard Mr. Hu, Mr. FORSGATE. I think you will appreciate that he will know what he said.
MR. HU: I did not say it.
MRS. ELLIOTT: Mr. Chairman, again I did not come prepared to make a speech, but I feel compelled to say something on this subject because I am a member of the Cultural Affairs Select Committee. Now, I was on the Library Committee and when I am talking about libraries I am absolutely in my element. Talking about the City Hall is again not beyond my depth. But when we talk about Museum and Art Galleries, I am not the only one who feels that it is really just a bit beyond us. Now, we cannot be a member of Select Committee, but only go to meetings for the subjects we know and miss the part that we don't know. It was so difficult last time that when we were told to view a certain picture I thought we were being shown a blackboard. I did not know it was the picture we were supposed to look at. (Laughter). As a matter of fact I do not feel at all confident as a member of the previous Library Select Committee and now interested in City Hall affairs. I do not feel confident to judge these pictures and I think it is a little bit different from the rest of the work we do and divorced from it. It should be a separate committee. I did not have any strong feelings about it before, but having been on the committee and found that not only I, but several others refused to vote for the
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been a very important subject to consider. I think, Mr. Chairman, if you remember, about three years ago we had a joint meeting to consider the size of the Museum even with pictures on the wall and photographs projected, and eventually we chose a site and that site was later found not to be practicable and later we were offered a site in Kowloon, and last year we were told in this Council that it may at least be three or five more years before the initial stage of the construction work could be started. We were also told, Mr. Chairman, that there was a lot of planning as to how the Museum should be set up, and what kind of things we should purchase or obtain to make our Museum worthwhile and this offered tremendous work. Mr. Chairman, it is also a fact, as Mr. BERNACCHI said, that we have always had outside people to assist us because many of the things are rather special things. So, as for the work of the Museum, I should think, it is not only that we have a lot of work to do at the moment, but it also needs a lot of planning, not only the planning of the building itself, but the planning of how this Museum should be presented to the public.
About the planning itself, I think it should have a separate Select Committee to do this planning work, especially the planning of the Museum which has been a very important item for many years. I think Mr. BERNACCHI's motion does have merit in it. I wish the members could consider it carefully, not because we just started with this new amendment which we cannot change. If you think, Mr. Chairman, that Mr. BERNACCHI's motion has merit in it, I do think there is merit in it, I would ask the members to vote for it and probably we could consider it further in the Committee as a Whole, or in the Cultural Select Committee, whether we should have a separate com- mittee to deal with Museum affairs. With these remarks, Mr. Chairman, I support the motion.
DR. HUANG: Mr. Chairman, I think Mr. BERNACCHI put forward fair reasons to show that we really need a separate Select Committee. Unfortunately, he did not emphasize these points before the whole Council agreed to the new committees. On the other hand, I think Mr. T. S. Lo made a good point that at least we all agreed to have this Committee only six months ago. I think we must give the new Select Committee a chance. That is why I abstain from voting.
MR. FORSGATE:-Mr. Chairman, Dr. HUANG has made one of the two points I intended to make. The other point is that Mr. BERNACCHI, Miss YEUNG in seconding the motion and Mr. Hu have made a great deal with the advice of experts is no longer available to the Cultural Affairs Committee. Could I have clarification of that, because that seems to me an extraordinary statement for three people to make?
MR. BERNACCHI:-I do not think that anybody is suggesting that the advice of experts is not now available. I say, in fact I think that
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177
Miss YEUNG elaborated on my theme, that it is an insult to the advisers, to be advisers of a subject that is only one limb of the work of a committee, that it is mainly designed to operate the day-to-day business of the City Hall.
MR. HU: Mr. Chairman, I think Mr. FORSGATE did make a May I make it quite clear, mistake concerning this remark from me.
I never said that. I wish Mr. ForSGATE would withdraw this remarks as far as I am concerned.
MR. FORSGATE:--Of course, if Mr. Hu did not make the remarks, then I could not possibly have heard him. (Laughter).
MR. HU:-Could you make a ruling, Mr. Chairman, did I make If I did not make it, I think I am reasonable in this remark or not? asking Mr. FORSGATE to withdraw. (Laughter).
CHAIRMAN:-I am sure you know what you said, Mr. Hu.
(Laughter).
MR. HU:-Mr. Chairman, you are ruling in front of all these gentlemen and ladies. Do you think I did make a mistake, of course if he doesn't need to withdraw, it depends on you Mr. Chairman, to say whether he is right or I am right?
CHAIRMAN: -You have heard Mr. Hu, Mr. FORSGATE. I think you will appreciate that he will know what he said.
MR. HU:-I did not say it.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, again I did not come prepared to make a speech, but I feel compelled to say something on this subject because I am a member of the Cultural Affairs Select Committee. Now, I was on the Library Committee and when I am talking about libraries I am absolutely in my element. Talking about the City Hall is again not beyond my depth. But when we talk about Museum and Art Galleries, I am not the only one who feels that it is really just a bit beyond us. Now, we cannot be a member of Select Committee, but only go to meetings for the subjects we know and miss the part that we don't know. It was so difficult last time that when we were told to view a certain picture I thought we were being shown a black- board. I did not know it was the picture we were supposed to look at. (Laughter). As a matter of fact I do not feel at all confident as a member of the previous Library Select Committee and now interested in City Hall affairs. I do not feel confident to judge these pictures and I think it is a little bit different from the rest of the work we do and divorced from it. It should be a separate committee. I did not have any strong feelings about it before, but having been on the committee and found that not only I, but several others refused to vote for the
Page 98 of 206
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