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CHAIRMAN:-Certainly, I would like to think that members of my Department are always in attendance at Resettlement Management meetings when hawker matters are being discussed.
MR. BERNACCHI:-The question was "could this particular question that deals with hawker bazaars in or near Resettlement Estates be referred to the Resettlement Management Select Committee for further consideration." I would support that.
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-I would suggest with respect, Mr. Chairman, that this is primarily a matter for the Hawker Policy Select Committee to plan the action. The Department will only give what assistance it can within the terms of that policy.
CHAIRMAN:-Strictly speaking, my opinion is "the Hawker Management Committee."
MR. P. C. K. CHAN:-Mr. Chairman, I will withdraw my request if the Hawker Policy Committee Chairman considers it is within the sphere of the Hawker Management Select Committee.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, to clarify that in terms of priority, I think it is a matter which is being cleared between the Urban Services Department and the Management and Policy Select Committees, but I would like to add this bit which, perhaps, might be helpful to Mr. BERNACCHI. I have spoken on two occasions already with the Commissioner for Resettlement on this particular point. How much more can the Resettlement Department co-operate with the Urban Council and Urban Services Department in assisting in the control of hawkers in Resettlement Estates, and from the conversations I have had with him, he gives the impression that he is very helpful. As a matter of fact, I wrote him a letter the other day, with a copy to you, Mr. Chairman, in which I suggested that his Area Officer in Shek Pai Wan could take the initiative in co-ordinating activities on regularising the hawker situation there, together with the support of the City District Offices and the Police. But I must point out, Mr. Chairman, that the responsibility, in the last analysis, is that of the Urban Services Department and Urban Council.
CHAIRMAN:-I would like to make a personal statement. It would help all of us round this table, if, when Members have specific questions, they would ask them, and not hide them behind other questions. If you want to ask about Ngau Tau Kok, ask about Ngau Tau Kok; do not ask about hawker bazaars.
MR. BERNACCHI:-I am sorry, but that was not the question I wanted to ask. The question I wanted to ask was the question I have asked, but instead of always referring to Chai Wan, I chose on this particular instance to refer to Ngau Tau Kok.
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MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, may I express appreciation for Mr. BERNACCHI's interest in North East Kowloon,
(12) DR. DENNY M. H. HUANG asked the following question:
I have noticed what appears to be vagrants sleeping on public benches provided by the Council. Can the Chairman say what action is taken or can be taken to prevent this misuse of public benches?
MR. A. de O. SALES, CHAIRMAN OF THE RECREATION AND AMENITIES SELECT COMMITTEE, replied as follows:
The benches that Council provides can be divided into 3 categories: those within gazetted public pleasure grounds, those in small amenity areas maintained by the department, but not allocated to the department or gazetted as public pleasure grounds, and those affixed at various places along roadsides.
The first category is covered by the Pleasure Grounds By-laws which provide that no person shall put his feet on any seat or lie down upon any seat although there is no specific prohibition on people sleeping while seated. Sir, may I have your permission to say that I have not seen anyone sleeping in this Council, except on one occasion and that happily was in the Official benches. (Laughter). I am told on very high medical authority that in another Council somnolence is endemic. (Laughter). The recent action taken by the Council to appoint keepers empowered to enforce the By-laws will enable the department more effectively to prevent park-benches within gazetted public pleasure grounds from being used as beds.
Sir, the other two categories are not covered by the Pleasure Grounds By-laws and I can find no evidence that an offence is being committed by any person who sleeps on a bench not in a gazetted pleasure ground. Nor is any offence committed under the Summary Offences Ordinance. It seems therefore that no action can be taken as the law stands at present to prevent people sleeping on benches other than those within gazetted public pleasure grounds.
DR. HUANG:--Mr. Chairman, regarding possible supplementaries.
In the first category, that is gazetted pleasure grounds, I have seen people sleeping on benches in two parks in Kowloon Tong, and I do
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CHAIRMAN:-Certainly, I would like to think that members of my Department are always in attendance at Resettlement Management meetings when hawker matters are being discussed.
MR. BERNACCHI:-The question was "could this particular question that deals with hawker bazaars in or near Resettlement Estates be referred to the Resettlement Management Select Committee for further consideration." I would support that.
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: -I would suggest with respect, Mr. Chairman, that this is primarily a matter for the Hawker Policy Select Committee to plan the action. The Department will only give what assistance it can within the terms of that policy.
CHAIRMAN:-Strictly speaking, my opinion is "the Hawker Manage- ment Committee."
MR. P. C. K. CHAN:-Mr. Chairman, I will withdraw my request if the Hawker Policy Committee Chairman considers it is within the sphere of the Hawker Management Select Committee.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, to clarify that in terms of priority, I think it is a matter which is being cleared between the Urban Services Department and the Management and Policy Select Committees, but I would like to add this bit which, perhaps, might be helpful to Mr. BERNACCHI. I have spoken on two occasions already with the Commissioner for Resettlement on this particular point. How much more can the Resettlement Department co-operate with the Urban Council and Urban Services Department in assisting in the control of hawkers in Resettlement Estates, and from the conversations I have had with him, he gives the impression that he is very helpful. As a matter of fact, I wrote him a letter the other day, with a copy to you, Mr. Chairman, in which I suggested that his Area Officer in Shek Pai Wan could take the initiative in co-ordinating activities on regularising the hawker situation there, together with the support of the City District Offices and the Police. But I must point out, Mr. Chairman, that the responsibility, in the last analysis, is that of the Urban Services Depart- ment and Urban Council.
CHAIRMAN: --I would like to make a personal statement. It would help all of us round this table, if, when Members have specific questions, they would ask them, and not hide them behind other questions. If you want to ask about Ngau Tau Kok, ask about Ngau Tau Kok; do not ask about hawker bazaars.
MR. BERNACCHI:-I am sorry, but that was not the question I wanted to ask. The question I wanted to ask was the question I have asked, but instead of always referring to Chai Wan, I chose on this particular instance to refer to Ngau Tau Kok.
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MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, may I express appreciation for Mr. BERNACCHI's interest in North East Kowloon,
(12) DR. DENNY M. H. HUANG asked the following question:
I have noticed what appears to be vagrants sleeping on public benches provided by the Council. Can the Chairman say what action is taken or can be taken to prevent this misure of public benches?
MR. A. de O. SALES, CHAIRMAN OF THE RECREATION AND AMENITIES SELECT COMMITTEE, replied as follows:
The benches that Council provides can be divided into 3 categories: those within gazetted public pleasure grounds, those in small amenity areas maintained by the depart- ment, but not allocated to the department or gazetted as public pleasure grounds, and those affixed at various places along roadsides.
The first category is covered by the Pleasure Grounds By-laws which provide that no person shall put his feet on any seat or lie down upon any seat although there is no specific prohibition on people sleeping while seated. Sir, may I have your permission to say that I have not seen anyone sleeping in this Council, except on one occasion and that happily was in the Official benches. (Laughter). I am told on very high medical authority that in another Council somnolence is endemic. (Laughter). The recent action taken by the Council to appoint keepers empowered to enforce the By-laws will enable the department more effectively to prevent park-benches within gazetted public pleasure grounds from being used as beds.
Sir, the other two categories are not covered by the Pleasure Grounds By-laws and I can find no evidence that an offence is being committed by any person who sleeps on a bench not in a gazetted pleasure ground. Nor is any offence committed under the Summary Offences Ordin- ance. It seems therefore that no action can be taken as the law stands at present to prevent people sleeping on benches other than those within gazetted public pleasure grounds.
DR. HUANG:--Mr. Chairman, regarding possible supplementaries.
In the first category, that is gazetted pleasure grounds, I have seen people sleeping on benches in two parks in Kowloon Tong, and I do
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