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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

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who are not attending school." I understand that Mr. CHEONG-LEEN is concerned about the school vacancies in resettlement estates which are not filled, but if we read Mr. CHEONG-LEEN's speech, it ends with "free and compulsory education" so that the wording of the motion does not correspond with the speech Mr. CHEONG-LEEN made in support of his motion. Therefore, referring back to my original speech, I support Mr. BERNACCHI's motion, because Mr. BERNACCHI's speech and Mr. CHEONG-LEEN's speech are the same, so that the wording of the motion, as it now stands, and the speech of Mr. CHEONG-LEEN, are two different things, Mr. Chairman.

MR. CHEUNG-LEEN:-On a point of clarification, Mr. Chairman, at the very outset of my speech I did say that I would have been happy if the text of the motion had stated "Resolved that Government take steps to have universal and compulsory, primary education in Hong Kong before 1970. I said nothing about free education. Now, I suggest that Mr. Hu takes the speech back home and reads it.

MR. LI: Mr. Chairman, may I now rise to speak on the original motion? I do not like to disappoint Mr. Hilton CHEONG-LEEN, but I have said that I agree with Dr. BELL that it is no use being just con- cerned about the number of children in Resettlement Estates who are not going to school. We must do something more than just being concerned, so I think the motion has its merits, but it does not go far enough. Therefore, for that reason, although the motion has been moved by my friend Mr. CHEONG-LEEN and seconded by Mr. CHEUNG Wing-in, I shall abstain from voting.

MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, I agree with the sentiment of the Civic Association. I also agree with that of the Reform Club, but I think they are both aiming at the same thing. It is just a matter of wording, and I would suggest that if the motion had read "This Coun- cil is concerned about the number of primary age children in Resettle- ment Estates who are not attending schools, but who would do so if such education were free and compulsory", I could have supported it, but as it is, I think one is not sufficient and the other is not logical. Therefore, I cannot support them as they stand.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, may I say by way of explana- tion and on a point of privilege, that I would have loved to move a motion of that nature, but being Chairman of the Standing Orders and Procedure Select Committee I do not think I should put a motion on the agenda which commits a breach of Standing Orders.

DR. BELL:-Mr. Chairman, may I speak on the original motion? I have said already in my speech in seconding the amendment, that I considered this was meaningless as it stands. It was given proper meaning with Mr. BERNACCHI's original amendment, which unfortun- ately, rightly or wrongly, you have said makes the motion ultra vires.

I think it is a great pity that that should be. It seems to me that as this Council is so vitally and closely concerned with Resettlement Estates, and the fact that the second sentence was so linked with Resettlement Estates, that you might have made a ruling that this motion was allowed and then I think it would have passed without any difficulty whatsoever. As it stands it is meaningless. Of course, we are concerned. But what is the use of being concerned? We can all sit down and say we are concerned, we can talk about that all night, but what action are we going to take? The original amendment which said we urge Government to take action was satisfactory. I wish I could urge you, Mr. Chairman, to change your ruling on that motion, but as it stands at present, I am afraid I must abstain from voting. I am concerned, but I cannot sit back and be concerned and do nothing about it. Therefore I must abstain from voting on the original motion.

(Mrs. Ellen LI left the meeting at this point.)

CHAIRMAN:-On a point of clarification. I do not agree with members who say that this motion is meaningless. It is within our Standing Orders, as at present worded, and it has given the opportunity for members to speak very freely on education matters in general, which is not within the jurisdiction of this Council, and I am quite satisfied that if the motion remains as it is, that is, expressing concern, that I shall vote for it.

MR. SALES-Sir, my intention is to move a substitute motion. Would you accept that? (Laughter).

CHAIRMAN:-Sir, without knowing the motion and the text thereof, I cannot give an opinion. I am very happy to give you an opportunity. I am concerned that we should get on to the third motion on the agenda, because, if we do not, our Select Committees will be acting ultra vires during the next few days.

MR. SALES-I trust, Sir, that the text of this motion, if it is accepted, will take into account the sense of what members are trying to achieve, even though it may sound presumptious of me to suggest a different framing of it. The text is "This Council urges Government to compel children of primary school age in Resettlement Estates to attend school, and to provide adequate places for them."

MR. BERNACCHI:-Mr. Chairman, I second that amendment.

CHAIRMAN:-Ladies and gentlemen, the position is that an amend- ing motion has been proposed by Mr. SALES which reads as follows: "This Council urges Government to compel children of primary school age in Resettlement Estates to attend school and to provide adequate places for them”.

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