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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

and also the forthcoming election aside. I am speaking purely of the demerits of the amendment.

MRS. ELLEN LI: Mr. Chairman, I have been trying to restrain myself from speaking on this problem, but I was on the Urban Council two years ago when the White Paper was put forward, and I did also move for free primary education step by step, but as the motion stands, I agree entirely with Mr. Li Yiu-bor, that we cannot very easily ask Government to give consideration only to young people in the Resettlement Estates, I do not think I can support this motion as worded.

MR. LO: Mr. Chairman, like Mr. LI Yiu-bor, I fail to see that there is any great difference in the proposed motion as compared with the original motion, so I cannot see any point in amending the original motion. I feel that I must vote against the amendment.

MR. BERNACCHI: I think, Mr. Chairman, I have a right of reply on the amendment, and then Mr. CHEONG-LEEN has a general right of reply.

CHAIRMAN: (quoting from Standing Order 12) "If an amendment is proposed the proposer of the amendment shall have no right of reply". You have a right of reply, Mr. CHEONG-LEEN.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Would you care to refresh my memory, Mr. Chairman, if I do speak now whether I have a right of reply under the original motion?

CHAIRMAN: The Standing Orders go like this. You have a right of reply now on the proposed amendment. If that amendment is defeated, we are back to where we were originally, and you have a right of reply on the original motion. If the amending motion succeeds, the right of reply passes to Mr. BERNACCHI who proposed the amendment.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Mr. Chairman, I wish to exercise my right of reply on the amended motion. I agree with the view expressed by Mr. Li Yiu-bor. The motion as it is amended is meaningless, and is impractical in the present circumstances which we now face. If the motion as amended is passed, it will mean that it has no relation at all to the existing situation in our Resettlement Estates, because there is not a single child in our Resettlement Estates who is having free and compulsory primary education. You will notice, Mr. Chairman, that in the motion I refer to the need for universal and compulsory primary education. We are all agreed that there should be free and compulsory primary education, but this takes time and it has to be done in stages, and I believe that the first stage is universal and compulsory primary education. Universal because it is practical. We have 19,000 children in our Resettlement Estates who are not going to school. We may have another 50,000 or 60,000 outside the Resettlement Estates. There are vacant places in our Resettlement Estates and, because there is already a family assistance scheme which can be enlarged upon, it is practical for us to aim for universal primary education. Now, for universal primary education to succeed, there must be an element of compulsion. We all recognize that, so my original proposal has to do with universal and compulsory primary education, something which we can foresee within the next one or two years.

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MR. BERNACCHI: On a point of order, the original motion does not have the word "compulsory".

MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Mr. Chairman, by way of clarification may I say, that was implicit in the entire contents of my speech in moving the motion. Now, both the Reform Club and the Civic Association have the same ideal. Perhaps they advocated it and perhaps we showed the way, but I think that is irrelevant. I think we ought to pool our resources and move in the same direction, and I would like to keep the election out of this. I have only another two months as an elected member, and even though I may not be re-elected, I will still fight for universal and compulsory primary education as the first step towards the long term goal of free and compulsory primary education. Hong Kong, as Mr. SALES mentioned, is reputed to have the second highest G.N.P. in Asia, but we are still way behind when it comes to education. In Japan they are now discussing compulsory primary education up to the age of 18. In England there is compulsory primary education up to 15, and so, Mr. Chairman, we ought to keep up with the times. I do appreciate the sentiments behind the mover and seconder of the amendment. I think we all have the same ideals, but the way we go about them is different, and with due respect I will oppose the amended motion.

CHAIRMAN: Ladies and gentlemen, I now call for a vote on the amended motion, proposed by Mr. BERNACCHI and seconded by Dr. BELL, which reads as follows: "This Council is concerned about the number of primary age children in resettlement estates who are not given free, compulsory, primary education".

The question was put.

The amending motion was lost with 8 votes against, 4 for and 7 abstentions.

(The Director of Public Works and Mr. H. M. G. FORSGATE left at this point)

MR. HU: Mr. Chairman, may I speak on the original motion? As I have said, Mr. CHEONG-LEEN has a good idea, and I think Mr. CHEONG-LEEN was very wise to abstain from voting, as his motion does not correspond with his speech—the motion that "this Council is concerned about the number of primary age children in resettlement estates

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