1967 — Page 224

Urban Council Proceedings 市政局議事錄 All AI Reviewed

Page 224 of 259

422

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

Are you taking any steps to ensure that we, the individuals here who raised matters outside the scope of the Council, will get answers from the Colonial Secretary and the various Heads of Departments individually?

CHAIRMAN: No, Dr. BELL, I am not taking any steps.

DR. BELL: Do I understand from your answer, Mr. Chairman, that it is highly likely that no answer will be given on these matters whatsoever by Government?

CHAIRMAN: I think what will happen, Dr. BELL, is that by the next Annual Conventional Debate quite a number of the points raised will be answered.

DR. BELL: Do you mean by actions taken or by public statement?

CHAIRMAN: It could be both.

DR. BELL: Mr. Chairman, you say that we will appreciate that the position of Heads of Departments would be vicarious if they participated in this Council through you. Would it still be vicarious if they participated directly; if you invited them here to give the answers?

CHAIRMAN: This is constitutionally impossible.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Not physically.

MR. BERNACCHI: Mr. Chairman, I would ask, why are you not taking any steps to get matters raised to be given answers to the individuals raising them?

CHAIRMAN: Because they concern matters outside the jurisdiction of this Council.

MR. BERNACCHI: Surely Government is pleased to hear constructive criticisms?

CHAIRMAN: Yes, Sir, and I spoke in that sense in my speech on December 21st, and I have just said to Dr. BELL that when the next Annual Conventional Debate comes round, no doubt some of the matters raised will have been answered either by deeds in the intervening twelve months or by speeches.

MR. BERNACCHI: So, surely, if you do convey to the individual Heads of Government Departments the fact that members would like individual answers, they perhaps will be given them by those very Heads?

CHAIRMAN: I think, Sir, it is the path to confusion.

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

423

DR. BELL: Mr. Chairman, you are giving an opinion. I am sorry, but I object to that, I do not think that is an answer to Mr. BERNACCHI's question. That is your opinion. Could you give an answer to his question?

CHAIRMAN: It was an answer to Mr. BERNACCHI's question.

DR. BELL: But, Mr. Chairman, Standing Orders say you are not allowed to express an opinion.

CHAIRMAN: I do not think so, Dr. BELL. I think Standing Orders say that a question shall not call for an expression of opinion.

MR. SALES: All answers must, ipso facto, be expressions of opinion.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Relatively speaking. (Laughter).

CHAIRMAN: Ladies and gentlemen, the actual Standing Order states: "A question must not be asked for the purpose of obtaining an expression of opinion". But, as Mr. SALES says, all answers have some element of opinion in them.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Mr. Chairman, would it be possible for matters which were raised by members of this Council at the last Conventional Debate to be answered individually by the Department Heads concerned, or by the Colonial Secretary, particularly appertaining to matters outside the scope of this Council?

CHAIRMAN: I cannot speak for either the Colonial Secretary or other Heads of Departments.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Mr. Chairman, could you formally put the request to Government that those points, which members of this Council have raised during the Annual Conventional Debate and which were outside the scope of this Council, be answered individually by Government either through Department Heads or by the Colonial Secretary direct to the individual members concerned. I think it is a very legitimate request because whenever individual members of this Council write to Government Department Heads they usually receive a civil answer, and surely as members of this Council, as Urban Councillors, they are entitled to even more consideration?

CHAIRMAN: Sir, this is where the confusion arises. Members may communicate direct with the Colonial Secretary, but it is not constitutionally correct for them to use the Chairman of the Urban Council to elicit information or answers.

MR. SALES: Or as the whipping boy. (Laughter).

259

Edit History

2026-05-14 03:19:37 · NVIDIA / meta/llama-4-maverick-17b-128e-instruct

Live

View comparison

AI Proofread

Page 224 of 259 422 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL Are you taking any steps to ensure that we, the individuals here who raised matters outside the scope of the Council, will get answers from the Colonial Secretary and the various Heads of Departments individually? CHAIRMAN: No, Dr. BELL, I am not taking any steps. DR. BELL: Do I understand from your answer, Mr. Chairman, that it is highly likely that no answer will be given on these matters whatsoever by Government? CHAIRMAN: I think what will happen, Dr. BELL, is that by the next Annual Conventional Debate quite a number of the points raised will be answered. DR. BELL: Do you mean by actions taken or by public statement? CHAIRMAN: It could be both. DR. BELL: Mr. Chairman, you say that we will appreciate that the position of Heads of Departments would be vicarious if they participated in this Council through you. Would it still be vicarious if they participated directly; if you invited them here to give the answers? CHAIRMAN: This is constitutionally impossible. MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Not physically. MR. BERNACCHI: Mr. Chairman, I would ask, why are you not taking any steps to get matters raised to be given answers to the individuals raising them? CHAIRMAN: Because they concern matters outside the jurisdiction of this Council. MR. BERNACCHI: Surely Government is pleased to hear constructive criticisms? CHAIRMAN: Yes, Sir, and I spoke in that sense in my speech on December 21st, and I have just said to Dr. BELL that when the next Annual Conventional Debate comes round, no doubt some of the matters raised will have been answered either by deeds in the intervening twelve months or by speeches. MR. BERNACCHI: So, surely, if you do convey to the individual Heads of Government Departments the fact that members would like individual answers, they perhaps will be given them by those very Heads? CHAIRMAN: I think, Sir, it is the path to confusion. HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 423 DR. BELL: Mr. Chairman, you are giving an opinion. I am sorry, but I object to that, I do not think that is an answer to Mr. BERNACCHI's question. That is your opinion. Could you give an answer to his question? CHAIRMAN: It was an answer to Mr. BERNACCHI's question. DR. BELL: But, Mr. Chairman, Standing Orders say you are not allowed to express an opinion. CHAIRMAN: I do not think so, Dr. BELL. I think Standing Orders say that a question shall not call for an expression of opinion. MR. SALES: All answers must, ipso facto, be expressions of opinion. MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Relatively speaking. (Laughter). CHAIRMAN: Ladies and gentlemen, the actual Standing Order states: "A question must not be asked for the purpose of obtaining an expression of opinion". But, as Mr. SALES says, all answers have some element of opinion in them. MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Mr. Chairman, would it be possible for matters which were raised by members of this Council at the last Conventional Debate to be answered individually by the Department Heads concerned, or by the Colonial Secretary, particularly appertaining to matters outside the scope of this Council? CHAIRMAN: I cannot speak for either the Colonial Secretary or other Heads of Departments. MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Mr. Chairman, could you formally put the request to Government that those points, which members of this Council have raised during the Annual Conventional Debate and which were outside the scope of this Council, be answered individually by Government either through Department Heads or by the Colonial Secretary direct to the individual members concerned. I think it is a very legitimate request because whenever individual members of this Council write to Government Department Heads they usually receive a civil answer, and surely as members of this Council, as Urban Councillors, they are entitled to even more consideration? CHAIRMAN: Sir, this is where the confusion arises. Members may communicate direct with the Colonial Secretary, but it is not constitutionally correct for them to use the Chairman of the Urban Council to elicit information or answers. MR. SALES: Or as the whipping boy. (Laughter). 259

Baseline (Original)

259 Page 224 of 259 422 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL Are you taking any steps to ensure that we, the individuals here who raised matters outside the scope of the Council, will get answers from the Colonial Secretary and the various Heads of Departments individually? CHAIRMAN:-No, Dr. BELL, I am not taking any steps. DR. BELL: Do I understand from your answer, Mr. Chairman, that it is highly likely that no answer will be given on these matters whatsoever by Government? CHAIRMAN:-I think what will happen, Dr. BELL, is that by the next Annual Conventional Debate quite a number of the points raised will be answered. DR. BELL: Do you mean by actions taken or by public statement? CHAIRMAN:-It could be both. DR. BELL:Mr. Chairman, you say that we will appreciate that the position of Heads of Departments would be vicarious if they partic- ipated in this Council through you. Would it still be vicarious if they participated directly; if you invited them here to give the answers? CHAIRMAN:-This is constitutionally impossible. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Not physically. MR. BERNACCHI:--Mr. Chairman, I would ask, why are you not taking any steps to get matters raised to be given answers to the individ- uals raising them? CHAIRMAN:-Because they concern matters outside the jurisdiction of this Council. MR. BERNACCHI:-Surely Government is pleased to hear construc- tive criticisms? CHAIRMAN: -Yes, Sir, and I spoke in that sense in my speech on December 21st, and I have just said to Dr. BELL that when the next Annual Conventional Debate comes round, no doubt some of the matters raised will have been answered either by deeds in the intervening twelve months or by speeches. MR. BERNACCHI:-So, surely, if you do convey to the individual Heads of Government Departments the fact that members would like individual answers, they perhaps will be given them by those very Heads? CHAIRMAN:-I think, Sir, it is the path to confusion. HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 423 DR. BELL: ---Mr. Chairman, you are giving an opinion. I am sorry, but I object to that, I do not think that is an answer to Mr. BERNACCHI's question. That is your opinion. Could you give an answer to his question? CHAIRMAN: It was an answer to Mr. BERNACCHI's question. DR. BELL:-But, Mr. Chairman, Standing Orders say you are not allowed to express an opinion. CHAIRMAN: I do not think so, Dr. BELL. I think Standing Orders say that a question shall not call for an expression of opinion. MR. SALES: All answers must, ipso facto, be expressions of opinion. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Relatively speaking. (Laughter). states: CHAIRMAN: ---Ladies and gentlemen, the actual Standing Order "A question must not be asked for the purpose of obtaining an expression of opinion", But, as Mr. SALES says, all answers have some element of opinion in them. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, would it be possible for mat- ters which were raised by members of this Council at the last Conven- tional Debate to be answered individually by the Department Heads concerned, or by the Colonial Secretary, particularly appertaining to matters outside the scope of this Council? CHAIRMAN:-I cannot speak for either the Colonial Secretary or other Heads of Departments. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, could you formally put the request to Government that those points, which members of this Council have raised during the Annual Conventional Debate and which were outside the scope of this Council, be answered individually by Govern- ment either through Department Heads or by the Colonial Secretary direct to the individual members concerned. I think it is a very legiti- mate request because whenever individual members of this Council write to Government Department Heads they usually receive a civil answer, and surely as members of this Council, as Urban Councillors, they are entitled to even more consideration? CHAIRMAN: -Sir, this is where the confusion arises. Members may communicate direct with the Colonial Secretary, but it is not constitu- tionally correct for them to use the Chairman of the Urban Council to elicit information or answers. MR. SALES: Or as the whipping boy. (Laughter).

2026-05-14 03:19:37 · Baseline

View content

259

Page 224 of 259

422

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

CHAIRMAN:-No, Dr. BELL, I am not taking any steps.

DR. BELL: Do I understand from your answer, Mr. Chairman, that it is highly likely that no answer will be given on these matters whatsoever by Government?

CHAIRMAN:-I think what will happen, Dr. BELL, is that by the next Annual Conventional Debate quite a number of the points raised will be answered.

DR. BELL: Do you mean by actions taken or by public statement?

CHAIRMAN:-It could be both.

DR. BELL:Mr. Chairman, you say that we will appreciate that the position of Heads of Departments would be vicarious if they partic- ipated in this Council through you. Would it still be vicarious if they participated directly; if you invited them here to give the answers?

CHAIRMAN:-This is constitutionally impossible.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Not physically.

MR. BERNACCHI:--Mr. Chairman, I would ask, why are you not taking any steps to get matters raised to be given answers to the individ- uals raising them?

CHAIRMAN:-Because they concern matters outside the jurisdiction of this Council.

MR. BERNACCHI:-Surely Government is pleased to hear construc- tive criticisms?

CHAIRMAN: -Yes, Sir, and I spoke in that sense in my speech on December 21st, and I have just said to Dr. BELL that when the next Annual Conventional Debate comes round, no doubt some of the matters raised will have been answered either by deeds in the intervening twelve months or by speeches.

MR. BERNACCHI:-So, surely, if you do convey to the individual Heads of Government Departments the fact that members would like individual answers, they perhaps will be given them by those very Heads?

CHAIRMAN:-I think, Sir, it is the path to confusion.

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

423

DR. BELL: ---Mr. Chairman, you are giving an opinion. I am sorry, but I object to that, I do not think that is an answer to Mr. BERNACCHI's question. That is your opinion. Could you give an answer to his question?

CHAIRMAN: It was an answer to Mr. BERNACCHI's question.

DR. BELL:-But, Mr. Chairman, Standing Orders say you are not allowed to express an opinion.

CHAIRMAN: I do not think so, Dr. BELL. I think Standing Orders say that a question shall not call for an expression of opinion.

MR. SALES: All answers must, ipso facto, be expressions of opinion.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Relatively speaking. (Laughter).

states:

CHAIRMAN: ---Ladies and gentlemen, the actual Standing Order "A question must not be asked for the purpose of obtaining an expression of opinion", But, as Mr. SALES says, all answers have some element of opinion in them.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, would it be possible for mat- ters which were raised by members of this Council at the last Conven- tional Debate to be answered individually by the Department Heads concerned, or by the Colonial Secretary, particularly appertaining to matters outside the scope of this Council?

CHAIRMAN:-I cannot speak for either the Colonial Secretary or other Heads of Departments.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, could you formally put the request to Government that those points, which members of this Council have raised during the Annual Conventional Debate and which were outside the scope of this Council, be answered individually by Govern- ment either through Department Heads or by the Colonial Secretary direct to the individual members concerned. I think it is a very legiti- mate request because whenever individual members of this Council write to Government Department Heads they usually receive a civil answer, and surely as members of this Council, as Urban Councillors, they are entitled to even more consideration?

CHAIRMAN: -Sir, this is where the confusion arises. Members may communicate direct with the Colonial Secretary, but it is not constitu- tionally correct for them to use the Chairman of the Urban Council to elicit information or answers.

1967 — Page 224

Edit History

Comments

Private Research Note