Page 222 of 259
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
and Tsz Wan Shan would it be possible to ask the Commissioner to look into the problem arising from lack of secondary school education in Estates, and if possible refer the matter to the Policy Select Committee?
CHAIRMAN:-This is a matter on which members must use their discretion. If Mr. BARTY is invited to undertake this particular task or his staff is invited to undertake this particular task, the likelihood exists that they will be neglecting something which it is their bounden duty to do in order to satisfy something which is not really their prime responsibility. It must therefore in my judgment be left to the discretion of the Commissioner for Resettlement whether or not he undertakes these border-line duties.
DR. BELL: Mr. Chairman, is the management of Resettlement Estates and therefore the management of the occupants in them, not a function of this Council?
CHAIRMAN:-Management of the occupants: yes, education of the occupants: no.
DR. BELL:-But surely as proper managers we should know that the occupants of our estates are going to school?
CHAIRMAN:-It is for this reason, Dr. BELL, that I have been quite liberal in admitting questions of this nature for the Order Paper, but we cannot push matters to extremes.
DR. BELL: But, Mr. Chairman, would you not agree that there is no objection in what Mrs. ELLIOTT has asked us now, that the Commissioner for Resettlement should refer these matters to the Director of Education and have an answer which could be put to the Resettlement Policy Select Committee and could we not consider it in the Policy Committee, or even in a joint meeting of the Policy and the Management Committees, whether it appears there are sufficient schools for the occupants of our Estates?
CHAIRMAN:-I have answered that already, Dr. BELL. Perhaps Mr. BARTY would like to supplement what I have said?
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, are you trying to shift the burden onto poor Mr. BARTY?
CHAIRMAN: No, Sir, I am not. I have said that it depends upon whether the Resettlement Department can spare the resources of time and manpower to undertake this kind of investigation.
DR. BELL: Mr. Chairman, excuse me, my question did not concern an investigation. My question was, could Mr. BARTY not contact the Director of Education and get an answer to the questions asked this afternoon and then bring the answer to the Resettlement Policy and Management Committees, so that it could be discussed there, and if there is any feeling that there are insufficient schools, then we could perhaps ask Mr. BARTY to convey to the Director of Education our feelings. Would that not be in order?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-Mr. Chairman, I have had occasion to say before, either in this Council or in Select Committee, that it is not Government's policy to provide secondary education within, or exclusively for the tenants of Resettlement Estates, for education is a Colony-wide matter, and for that reason and because I see no likelihood of there being secondary schools within Estates, I would regard it as outside my competence and outside the competence of this Council to consider that question. Primary education is on a rather different footing, in that primary schools are our tenants within the Estates and we therefore have a special interest in them.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, may I ask the Commissioner if he noticed that in that question, my supplementary, I was not referring to my own Ward, but to outlying Estates which I think need special treatment because of the lack of secondary education in them?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: I did so notice, Mr. Chairman.
MR. BERNACCHI:-Mr. Chairman, I would ask the Commissioner if the managers of secondary schools came within our Estates, would they not also be our tenants?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-That is so, but it is a hypothetical situation and I do not see any likelihood of it arising.
MR. BERNACCHI:-I would make a personal statement and that is to ask you, Mr. Chairman, an oratorical question, I do not expect an answer. Your message to this Council to keep within its jurisdiction, was it your own opinion or given on instructions?
CHAIRMAN:-I am glad to give an answer. It was my own opinion.
MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, before you move to the next item on the agenda, because of the importance of the subject of primary education in our Resettlement Estates, could I ask you that this matter be put on the agenda of the Standing Committee of the Whole Council, so that it could be discussed at length, because there is a feeling in the Council and that feeling has been held for many years that primary education should be the responsibility of the Urban Council. Previous feeling of the Council was that primary education should be the responsibility of the Urban Council, so I would like to have this whole subject put on the agenda of the Standing Committee of the Whole Council so that it might be fully discussed. With your permission.
418
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
419
Page 223 of 259
259
Page 222 of 259
418
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
and Tsz Wan Shan would it be possible to ask the Commissioner to look into the problem arising from lack of secondary school education in Estates, and if possible refer the matter to the Policy Select Com- mittee?
CHAIRMAN:-This is a matter on which members must use their discretion. If Mr. BARTY is invited to undertake this particular task or his staff is invited to undertake this particular task, the likelihood exists that they will be neglecting something which it is their bounden duty to do in order to satisfy something which is not really their prime responsibility. It must therefore in my judgment be left to the discretion of the Commissioner for Resettlement whether or not he undertakes these border-line duties.
DR. BELL: Mr. Chairman, is the management of Resettlement Estates and therefore the management of the occupants in them, not a function of this Council?
CHAIRMAN:-Management of the occupants: yes, education of the occupants: no.
DR. BELL:-But surely as proper managers we should know that the occupants of our estates are going to school?
CHAIRMAN:-It is for this reason, Dr. BELL, that I have been quite liberal in admitting questions of this nature for the Order Paper, but we cannot push matters to extremes.
DR. BELL: But, Mr. Chairman, would you not agree that there is no objection in what Mrs. ELLIOTT has asked us now, that the Commis- sioner for Resettlement should refer these matters to the Director of Education and have an answer which could be put to the Resettlement Policy Select Committee and could we not consider it in the Policy Committee, or even in a joint meeting of the Policy and the Manage- ment Committees, whether it appears there are sufficient schools for the occupants of our Estates?
CHAIRMAN:-I have answered that already, Dr. BELL. Perhaps Mr. BARTY would like to supplement what I have said?
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, are you trying to shift the burden onto poor Mr. BARTY?
CHAIRMAN: No, Sir, I am not. I have said that it depends upon whether the Resettlement Department can spare the resources of time and manpower to undertake this kind of investigation.
DR. BELL: Mr. Chairman, excuse me, my question did not con- cern an investigation. My question was, could Mr. BARTY not contact the Director of Education and get an answer to the questions asked
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
419
this afternoon and then bring the answer to the Resettlement Policy and Management Committees, so that it could be discussed there, and if there is any feeling that there are insufficient schools, then we could perhaps ask Mr. BARTY to convey to the Director of Education our feelings. Would that not be in order?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-Mr. Chairman, I have had occasion to say before, either in this Council or in Select Committee, that it is not Government's policy to provide secondary education within, or exclusively for the tenants of Resettlement Estates, for education is a Colonywide matter, and for that reason and because I see no like- lihood of there being secondary schools within Estates, I would regard it as outside my competence and outside the competence of this Council to consider that question. Primary education is on a rather different footing, in that primary schools are our tenants within the Estates and we therefore have a special interest in them.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, may I ask the Commissioner if he noticed that in that question, my supplementary, I was not referring to my own Ward, but to outlying Estates which I think need special treatment because of the lack of secondary education in them?
man.
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: I did so notice, Mr. Chair-
MR. BERNACCHI:-Mr. Chairman, I would ask the Commissioner if the managers of secondary schools came within our Estates, would they not also be our tenants?
COMMISSIONER for ResettlEMENT:-That is so, but it is a hypo- thetical situation and I do not see any likelihood of it arising.
MR. BERNACCHI:-I would make a personal statement and that is to ask you, Mr. Chairman, an oratorical question, I do not expect an Your message to this Council to keep within its jurisdiction, was it your own opinion or given on instructions?
answer.
CHAIRMAN: ---I am glad to give an answer. It was my own opinion.
MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, before you move to the next item on the agenda, because of the importance of the subject of primary education in our Resettlement Estates, could I ask you that this matter be put on the agenda of the Standing Committee of the Whole Council, so that it could be discussed at length, because there is a feeling in the Council and that feeling has been held for many years that primary education should be the responsibility of the Urban Council. Previous feeling of the Council was that primary education should be the respon- sibility of the Urban Council, so I would like to have this whole subject put on the agenda of the Standing Committee of the Whole Council so that it might be fully discussed. With your permission.
No comments yet.
Private notes are available after approval.