1967 — Page 221

Urban Council Proceedings 市政局議事錄 All AI Reviewed

Page 221

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

seven multi-storey blocks will not be completed for another two years. When do you understand that the several schools that are planned in this vicinity will be erected?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-One site is already, you might say, in process of grant. I understand it has been recommended by the Director of Education and the technical engineering conditions of the ground are being considered. I believe another site was sold for a school in 1963, but development seems to be held up.

MR. BERNACCHI:-Have you any reason to suppose that the development of the new site that has been sold will not also be held up?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-No, I should not think so, I do not think it will be held up.

MR. BERNACCHI:-So in effect the several schools are two, of which one you have reason to think that the development is being held up?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-No, there are sites reserved for seven others.

MR. BERNACCHI:-Can you say at all how many students they will cater for?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-No, Sir, I am afraid I have not got that information.

MR. BERNACCHI:-When you say that sites are reserved, do you mean that sites are reserved for anyone wanting to go in for a secondary school as a business in effect?

CHAIRMAN:-I must rule that question out of order, Sir, that is a new question.

MR. BERNACCHI:-Then, when you say sites are reserved, do you mean sites are reserved for building Government schools or schools erected by private enterprise?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-Members would expect that they would be subsidized schools, but I do not really know.

MR. BERNACCHI:-Do you know whether they are of the middle school type or technical type?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-I do not think that arises until grant is on the point of being made.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, may I seek clarification from the Commissioner for Resettlement, in answering the many supplementaries by Mr. BERNACCHI was he speaking as Commissioner for Resettlement or on behalf of the Director of Education?

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-As Commissioner for Resettlement.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Then, would it not be in order, Mr. Chairman, at the next meeting to give a full answer to Mr. BERNACCHI, for you to invite the Director of Education to attend the meeting of this Council to answer Mr. BERNACCHI direct?

CHAIRMAN:-No, Sir, it would not be in order. The questions are mainly on education, but having accepted them with reference to Chai Wan Estate, I permitted Mr. BARTY to answer to the limit of his ability.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-On the other hand, Mr. Chairman, there is nothing in Standing Orders which would prevent you from inviting the Director of Education to attend the meeting of this Council and answer questions, if you would so agree.

CHAIRMAN:-Sir, I would not so agree.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-On what grounds, Mr. Chairman? There is nothing in Standing Orders which says that you should not agree.

CHAIRMAN:-My message to this Council since I became Chairman is that we should be as efficient administratively as we can be and that entails remaining within our jurisdiction.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, on the other hand, you are not being administratively efficient if you allow the Commissioner for Resettlement to answer questions on education for which he is not responsible, so why not ask the Director of Education to obtain them?

CHAIRMAN:-Sir, you are forcing me to say that if I receive in future questions on education, I shall not accept them for the Order Paper.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, are you admitting that you are not within Standing Orders in accepting questions on education in Resettlement Estates?

CHAIRMAN:-It is a border-line case.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Sir, it is not. I respect your judgment in ruling on questions, and therefore I think that it matters that all these questions on education which are put to you are valid and within Standing Orders, and I question your judgment on that.

CHAIRMAN:-My judgment can only be questioned on a substantive motion.

MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, presuming that Mr. BERNACCHI is equally interested in education in Yau Tong, Sau Mau Ping, Tong Sin

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Page 221 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL seven multi-storey blocks will not be completed for another two years. When do you understand that the several schools that are planned in this vicinity will be erected? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-One site is already, you might say, in process of grant. I understand it has been recommended by the Director of Education and the technical engineering conditions of the ground are being considered. I believe another site was sold for a school in 1963, but development seems to be held up. MR. BERNACCHI:-Have you any reason to suppose that the development of the new site that has been sold will not also be held up? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-No, I should not think so, I do not think it will be held up. MR. BERNACCHI:-So in effect the several schools are two, of which one you have reason to think that the development is being held up? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-No, there are sites reserved for seven others. MR. BERNACCHI:-Can you say at all how many students they will cater for? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-No, Sir, I am afraid I have not got that information. MR. BERNACCHI:-When you say that sites are reserved, do you mean that sites are reserved for anyone wanting to go in for a secondary school as a business in effect? CHAIRMAN:-I must rule that question out of order, Sir, that is a new question. MR. BERNACCHI:-Then, when you say sites are reserved, do you mean sites are reserved for building Government schools or schools erected by private enterprise? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-Members would expect that they would be subsidized schools, but I do not really know. MR. BERNACCHI:-Do you know whether they are of the middle school type or technical type? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-I do not think that arises until grant is on the point of being made. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, may I seek clarification from the Commissioner for Resettlement, in answering the many supplementaries by Mr. BERNACCHI was he speaking as Commissioner for Resettlement or on behalf of the Director of Education? HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-As Commissioner for Resettlement. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Then, would it not be in order, Mr. Chairman, at the next meeting to give a full answer to Mr. BERNACCHI, for you to invite the Director of Education to attend the meeting of this Council to answer Mr. BERNACCHI direct? CHAIRMAN:-No, Sir, it would not be in order. The questions are mainly on education, but having accepted them with reference to Chai Wan Estate, I permitted Mr. BARTY to answer to the limit of his ability. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-On the other hand, Mr. Chairman, there is nothing in Standing Orders which would prevent you from inviting the Director of Education to attend the meeting of this Council and answer questions, if you would so agree. CHAIRMAN:-Sir, I would not so agree. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-On what grounds, Mr. Chairman? There is nothing in Standing Orders which says that you should not agree. CHAIRMAN:-My message to this Council since I became Chairman is that we should be as efficient administratively as we can be and that entails remaining within our jurisdiction. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, on the other hand, you are not being administratively efficient if you allow the Commissioner for Resettlement to answer questions on education for which he is not responsible, so why not ask the Director of Education to obtain them? CHAIRMAN:-Sir, you are forcing me to say that if I receive in future questions on education, I shall not accept them for the Order Paper. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, are you admitting that you are not within Standing Orders in accepting questions on education in Resettlement Estates? CHAIRMAN:-It is a border-line case. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Sir, it is not. I respect your judgment in ruling on questions, and therefore I think that it matters that all these questions on education which are put to you are valid and within Standing Orders, and I question your judgment on that. CHAIRMAN:-My judgment can only be questioned on a substantive motion. MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, presuming that Mr. BERNACCHI is equally interested in education in Yau Tong, Sau Mau Ping, Tong Sin Page 221 of 259 417

Baseline (Original)

259 Page 221 of 259 416 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL seven multi-storey blocks will not be completed for another two years. When do you understand that the several schools that are planned in this vicinity will be erected? COMMISSIONER for ResettleMENT : -One site is already you might say in process of grant. I understand it has been recommended by the Director of Education and the technical engineering conditions of the ground are being considered. I believe another site was sold for a school in 1963, but development seems to be held up. MR. BERNACCHI:-Have you any reason to suppose that the de- velopment of the new site that has been sold will not also be held up? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-No, I should not think so, I do not think it will be held up. MR. BERNACCHI:-So in effect the several schools are two, of which one you have reason to think that the development is being held up? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-No, there are sites reserved for seven others. MR. BERNACCHI:-Can you say at all how many students they will cater for? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-No, Sir, I am afraid I have not got that information. MR. BERNACCHI:-When you say that sites are reserved, do you mean that sites are reserved for anyone wanting to go in for a secondary school as a business in effect? CHAIRMAN:-I must rule that question out of order, Sir, that is a new question. MR. BERNACCHI:-Then, when you say sites are reserved, do you mean sites are reserved for building Government schools or schools erected by private enterprise? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: ----Members would expect that they would be subsidized schools, but I do not really know. MR. BERNACCHI:-Do you know whether they are of the middle school type or technical type? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: —I do not think that arises until grant is on the point of being made. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, may I seek clarification from the Commissioner for Resettlement, in answering the many supplemen- taries by Mr. BERNACCHI was he speaking as Commissioner for Resettle- ment or on behalf of the Director of Education? HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL COMMISSIONER FOR Resettlement. RESETTLEMENT:-AS 417 Commissioner for MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Then, would it not be in order, Mr. Chairman, at the next meeting to give a full answer to Mr. BERNACCHI, for you to invite the Director of Education to attend the meeting of this Council to answer Mr. BERNACCHI direct? CHAIRMAN: No, Sir, it would not be in order. The questions are mainly on education, but having accepted them with reference to Chai Wan Estate, I permitted Mr. BARTY to answer to the limit of his ability. MR. CHEONG-LEEN: On the other hand, Mr. Chairman, there is nothing in Standing Orders which would prevent you from inviting the Director of Education to attend the meeting of this Council and answer questions, if you would so agree. CHAIRMAN:-Sir, I would not so agree. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:On what grounds, Mr. Chairman? There is nothing in Standing Orders which says that you should not agree. CHAIRMAN:-My message to this Council since I became Chairman is that we should be as efficient administratively as we can be and that entails remaining within our jurisdiction. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, on the other hand, you are not being administratively efficient if you allow the Commissioner for Resettlement to answer questions on education for which he is not responsible, so why not ask the Director of Education to obtain them? CHAIRMAN: --Sir, you are forcing me to say that if I receive in future questions on education, I shall not accept them for the Order Paper. MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, are you admitting that you are not within Standing Orders in accepting questions on education in Re- settlement Estates? CHAIRMAN:-It is a border-line case. MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Sir, it is not. I respect your judgment in ruling on questions, and therefore I think that it matters that all these questions on education which are put to you are valid and within Stand- ing Orders, and I question your judgment on that. CHAIRMAN: -My judgment can only be questioned on a substantive motion. MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, presuming that Mr. BERNACCHI is equally interested in education in Yau Tong, Sau Mau Ping, Tong Sin

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Page 221 of 259

416

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

seven multi-storey blocks will not be completed for another two years. When do you understand that the several schools that are planned in this vicinity will be erected?

COMMISSIONER for ResettleMENT : -One site is already you might say in process of grant. I understand it has been recommended by the Director of Education and the technical engineering conditions of the ground are being considered. I believe another site was sold for a school in 1963, but development seems to be held up.

MR. BERNACCHI:-Have you any reason to suppose that the de- velopment of the new site that has been sold will not also be held up? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-No, I should not think so, I do not think it will be held up.

MR. BERNACCHI:-So in effect the several schools are two, of which one you have reason to think that the development is being held up? COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-No, there are sites reserved for seven others.

MR. BERNACCHI:-Can you say at all how many students they will cater for?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-No, Sir, I am afraid I have not got that information.

MR. BERNACCHI:-When you say that sites are reserved, do you mean that sites are reserved for anyone wanting to go in for a secondary school as a business in effect?

CHAIRMAN:-I must rule that question out of order, Sir, that is a new question.

MR. BERNACCHI:-Then, when you say sites are reserved, do you mean sites are reserved for building Government schools or schools erected by private enterprise?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: ----Members would expect that they would be subsidized schools, but I do not really know.

MR. BERNACCHI:-Do you know whether they are of the middle school type or technical type?

COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: —I do not think that arises until grant is on the point of being made.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, may I seek clarification from the Commissioner for Resettlement, in answering the many supplemen- taries by Mr. BERNACCHI was he speaking as Commissioner for Resettle- ment or on behalf of the Director of Education?

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

COMMISSIONER FOR

Resettlement.

RESETTLEMENT:-AS

417

Commissioner for

CHAIRMAN: No, Sir, it would not be in order. The questions are mainly on education, but having accepted them with reference to Chai Wan Estate, I permitted Mr. BARTY to answer to the limit of his ability.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN: On the other hand, Mr. Chairman, there is nothing in Standing Orders which would prevent you from inviting the Director of Education to attend the meeting of this Council and answer questions, if you would so agree.

CHAIRMAN:-Sir, I would not so agree.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:On what grounds, Mr. Chairman? There is nothing in Standing Orders which says that you should not agree.

CHAIRMAN:-My message to this Council since I became Chairman is that we should be as efficient administratively as we can be and that entails remaining within our jurisdiction.

CHAIRMAN: --Sir, you are forcing me to say that if I receive in future questions on education, I shall not accept them for the Order Paper.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, are you admitting that you are not within Standing Orders in accepting questions on education in Re- settlement Estates?

CHAIRMAN:-It is a border-line case.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Sir, it is not. I respect your judgment in ruling on questions, and therefore I think that it matters that all these questions on education which are put to you are valid and within Stand- ing Orders, and I question your judgment on that.

CHAIRMAN: -My judgment can only be questioned on a substantive

motion.

MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, presuming that Mr. BERNACCHI is equally interested in education in Yau Tong, Sau Mau Ping, Tong Sin

1967 — Page 221

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