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would become necessary. This would come at a time when expendi- ture is required very urgently for the social services of Hong Kong, not to speak of the extra expenditure caused by the recent disturb- ances. Surely, at a time like this we could think of more immediate productive work than a fine record in literature. In considering this Motion we should not lose sight of the fact that in most cases of translation, it will take at least a week if not two to produce and print a good translation, even the original Hansard takes that long. Meanwhile, the news value of the translation would have been lost, but of course the cultural and record value remain. Furthermore, the Chinese press, especially the Wah Kiu Yat Pao, cover the Council's proceedings very well and devotes considerable space to the work of the Council on every occasion. Finally, as we might not be able to obtain the translation without calling on a continuous strain on public funds, I would respectfully propose that this Motion be referred to the Standing Committee of the Whole Council.

MR. WANG: Mr. Chairman, I do not intend to comment on the text of the original motion as I, too, agree in principle that its motive is good and the intention of the proposer most praiseworthy. But I must say that I cannot see why a matter of this kind has to be intro- duced as a motion before it is discussed in Standing Committee. I should think it would be more appropriate and more conveniently discussed there, where the method of its implementation can be studied in detail. The experience we had with the previous motion on a bi- lingual system of procedure at the meetings, is a lesson which we should not forget, and I will certainly therefore second Mr. Wilfred WONG'S motion that the matter should first be discussed at a Standing Committee.

DR. Woo:-Mr. Chairman, to have this Council's official pro- ceedings translated into Chinese not only provides valuable record but also enables many who read only Chinese to be informed of what actually takes place during the Council's public meetings. The Han- sard in English is seldom published within the same month in which the meeting is held and a Chinese translation, if any at all, could only be published one month afterwards or perhaps even later. Such copy therefore could not serve the purpose of publicity and people who read it would know merely what had taken place long ago, which to the majority would not be of any interest.

I never liked the idea of referring motions to particular com- mittees because in many instances, they may not receive sufficient attention. And even if a committee had the deliberation, when it reaches a dead-lock, the motion is often laid aside and no more is heard of it. The Chairman has just answered my question in to-day's agenda about the necessity of following up a motion. This will be a test case if the motion is to be so referred.

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On second thought, Mr. Chairman, I must say I am always critical about the Government's translation system. Chinese translation is an art and unless the official translator is so gifted, he would not be able to bring out the true meanings and feelings of the speaker, especially the supplementary questions which make up the greater part of the Council's proceedings. Unless we are confident that the Council can produce an easily readable Chinese Hansard, I have the greatest doubt whether this motion, even if passed, would not be another dead letter laid aside in the file. It is because of my second thought, Mr. Chair- man, that I should give my support to Mr. WONG's proposal to refer this motion to the Standing Committee of the Whole Council.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, I support the Motion in prin- ciple, because from the words of the mover of the Motion it can be considered as one step forward towards achieving bi-lingualism in Hong Kong. There are, of course, many technical difficulties involved. One that comes to mind is, no matter how good the translation is, quite often it can be construed in a different sense by a non-English reading public. These are some of the pitfalls which we must be very careful about, and that is why Mr. WONG has very rightly pointed out the need for adequate and well trained translation personnel. It is for this reason in particular that I am in favour of having this motion dis- cussed in more detail in Committee as a Whole and, if necessary, to have it referred to the sub-committee on Organization and Procedures for discussion and revised in the light of the proposals made in the Urban Council's Ad Hoc Committee's Report.

MR. HU:-I must speak again, Mr. Chairman.

CHAIRMAN:-I beg your pardon, Mr. Hu. You are the seconder, you may not speak again.

MR. BERNACCHI:-Mr. Chairman, surely Mr. Hu can speak on the motion to refer the motion to a Select Committee?

MR. HU:-I am sorry, as a matter of fact I was just making that point, that the Motion should be referred to a Select Committee and I leave it at that. Mr. Chairman, I think that the motion which was proposed by my learned friend, Mr. BERNACCHI, is a matter of prin- ciple, whether our Hansard should be translated into the Chinese language or not. On this point Mr. WONG, Mr. WANG, Dr. Woo and Mr. CHEONG-LEEN all agreed that it should be translated into Chinese. In principle they agreed. The only question they now raise is the practical point, how to carry it out. Then, of course, that matter should be discussed, according to Mr. Wilfred WONG, in the Whole Committee of the Council, and according to Mr. CHEONG-LEEN it should be discussed in the Procedures Select Committee. That is a matter of detail. So I would urge you, if you agree with the prin-