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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
MR. HU:-Mr. Chairman, I have one question to ask. Where you use priority do you mean that it will be included in Category D of the Public Works Programme for the next financial year? Is it in the same priority as my question refers to? Is that correct, Mr. Chairman?
CHAIRMAN:-This Category has nothing to do with priority, Mr. Hu. It has to do with the cost of the item. Category D items cost, I think I am right in saying, less than $150,000.
MR. HU:-Would it also be submitted by the Department for inclusion in the Capital Works Programme for 1968-1969?
CHAIRMAN:-Yes, Sir, it will be going forward in the same way as your own item.
(Mrs. E. ELLIOTT left the meeting at this point).
MOTIONS.
(1) MR. B. A. BERNACCHI moved the following motion:-
"That in future the Official Record of Proceedings be translated into Chinese and then printed so as to be available to members of the public."
He said: Mr. Chairman, I do not consider that this is a time for long-winded speeches, especially I might say on your birthday, and I must join the Elected Members with Mr. SALES' remark on behalf of the Appointed Members to wish you all the best, but to get back to the motion, we seem to be getting ahead so slowly with our declared object of using Chinese as well as English wherever possible. The public as a whole has no record that they can read of all the massive amount of verbiage that we utter throughout the year in public meetings. Except of course through press reports, that must necessarily be short and sometimes, with respect to the press, give a distorted meaning to the speech through cutting. The Legislative Council meetings are comparatively short and consist mainly, although not entirely, of speeches on proposed legislation. But the Urban Council has to do with the day to day life of the public of Hong Kong and only by getting the public acquainted with the work of the Urban Council can the gap between the Government and the people be extinguished. I always remember when I was in New Zealand, I came across a Chinese translation of the Mining Ordinance of New Zealand because there were Chinese miners in New Zealand in the last century. New Zealand now of course has given up mining, but if New Zealand could have a Chinese translation of an Ordinance affecting Chinese people in the last century, why cannot we in this Century have our transactions in Chinese so that they can be read by a 98% Chinese race population.
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
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The Official Record of Proceedings (Hansard Reports) average about $25 a year. They are not quoted for individual meetings although in my submission the Official Record of the individual meetings should become available to members of the public before the full year is out. In my submission, it should be subsidized at least so as not to make the cost more than the cost of the English version, in other words about $2 a meeting, with sufficient numbers in the City Hall to be available to the public who subscribe to the library facilities.
In my submission, we should aim at making the administration of Hong Kong bilingual and aim at making Chinese that is to say Cantonese and English both official languages. This is merely one of several important preliminary steps that must be taken and in my submission the sooner they are taken, the better for the whole future of Hong Kong.
MR. HU:-I have great pleasure in seconding this Motion. It should be recalled that this Council has always advocated the adoption of bilingual system in the proceedings and the documents of the Urban Council. In August, 1965, questions were raised as to what steps this Council would take to assure people of Hong Kong that the language difficulties or barriers would gradually be removed so far as this Council is concerned. In October of the same year, a motion was tabled and was carried that the Government be urged to introduce the bilingual system in various governmental departments. The present motion is to implement the questions generally raised before. The translation of the proceedings of this Council into the Chinese language is, in particular, to co-ordinate the efforts made by the Chinese newspapers and the Chinese University in this field. With these short remarks, I beg to second the Motion.
MR. WONG:-Mr. Chairman, speaking on the Motion that this Council has its Hansard translated into Chinese in the future, I would say that this is a Motion on which everyone agrees in principle, and it is a fine thing to do and to have. On the other hand, if we are going to have the official record in Chinese, we should have it in reasonably good prose.
A few of us in this Council of pre-Republican vintage have the fortune or misfortune of having had to recite from memory Confucius from beginning to end. We are all too aware of the fact that Chinese is a language that, unless it conveys original meaning, it could equally serve as an instrument of amusement and, of course, amusement should not be obtained at public expense. The Hansard of this Council, apart from the substance it contains, is already replete with wit and humour, and I do not think we should add to it the amusement of incongruous translation. In view of this consideration, and with due deference to the present Chinese staff of this Council, I do not think they could properly perform the function and therefore additional staff
Page 111 of 259
Page 111 of 259
198
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
MR. HU:-Mr. Chairman, I have one question to ask. Where you use priority do you mean that it will be included in Category D of the Public Works Programme for the next financial year? Is it in the same priority as my question refers to? Is that correct, Mr. Chairman?
CHAIRMAN:-This Category has nothing to do with priority, Mr. Hu. It has to do with the cost of the item. Category D items cost, I think I am right in saying, less than $150,000.
MR. HU:-Would it also be submitted by the Department for inclusion in the Capital Works Programme for 1968-1969?
CHAIRMAN: -Yes, Sir, it will be going forward in the same way as your own item.
(Mrs. E. ELLIOTT left the meeting at this point).
MOTIONS.
(1) MR. B. A. BERNACCHI moved the following motion:-
"That in future the Official Record of Proceedings be translated into Chinese and then printed so as to be available to members of the public."
He said: Mr. Chairman, I do not consider that this is a time for long-winded speeches, especially I might say on your birthday, and I must join the Elected Members with Mr. SALES' remark on behalf of the Appointed Members to wish you all the best, but to get back to the motion, we seem to be getting ahead so slowly with our declared object of using Chinese as well as English wherever possible. The public as a whole has no record that they can read of all the massive amount of verbiage that we utter throughout the year in public meetings. Except of course through press reports, that must necessarily be short and sometimes, with respect to the press, give a distorted meaning to the speech through cutting. The Legislative Council meetings are com- paratively short and consist mainly, although not entirely, of speeches on proposed legislation. But the Urban Council has to do with the day to day life of the public of Hong Kong and only by getting the public acquainted with the work of the Urban Council can the gap between the Government and the people be extinguished. I always remember when I was in New Zealand, I came across a Chinese translation of the Mining Ordinance of New Zealand because there were Chinese miners in New Zealand in the last century. New Zealand now of course has given up mining, but if New Zealand could have a Chinese translation of an Ordinance affecting Chinese people in the last century, why cannot we in this Century have our transactions in Chinese so that they can be read by a 98% Chinese race population.
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
199
The Official Record of Proceedings (Hansard Reports) average about $25 a year. They are not quoted for individual meetings although in my submission the Official Record of the individual meetings should become available to members of the public before the full year is out. In my submission, it should be subsidized at least so as not to make the cost more than the cost of the English version, in other words about $2 a meeting, with sufficient numbers in the City Hall to be available to the public who subscribe to the library facilities.
In my submission, we should aim at making the administration of Hong Kong bilingual and aim at making Chinese that is to say Cantonese and English both official languages. This is merely one of several important preliminary steps that must be taken and in my sub- mission the sooner they are taken, the better for the whole future of Hong Kong.
MR. HU-I have great pleasure in seconding this Motion. It should be recalled that this Council has always advocated the adoption of bilingual system in the proceedings and the documents of the Urban Council. In August, 1965, questions were raised as to what steps this Council would take to assure people of Hong Kong that the language difficulties or barriers would gradually be removed so far as this Council is concerned. In October of the same year, a motion was tabled and was carried that the Government be urged to introduce the bilingual system in various governmental departments. The present motion is to implement the questions generally raised before. The translation of the proceedings of this Council into the Chinese lan- guage is, in particular, to co-ordinate the efforts made by the Chinese newspapers and the Chinese University in this field. With these short remarks, I beg to second the Motion.
MR. WONG:-Mr. Chairman, speaking on the Motion that this Council has its Hansard translated into Chinese in the future, I would say that this is a Motion on which everyone agrees in principle, and it is a fine thing to do and to have. On the other hand, if we are going to have the official record in Chinese, we should have it in reasonably good prose.
A few of us in this Council of pre-Republican vintage have the fortune or misfortune of having had to recite from memory Confucius from beginning to end. We are all too aware of the fact that Chinese is a language that, unless it conveys original meaning, it could equally serve as an instrument of amusement and, of course, amusement should not be obtained at public expense. The Hansard of this Council, apart from the substance it contains, is already replete with wit and humour, and I do not think we should add to it the amusement of incongruous translation. In view of this consideration, and with due deference to the present Chinese staff of this Council, I do not think they could properly perform the function and therefore additional staff
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