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as helpless as our position in this Council is today, and all will continue as it is now or even worse since we shall become scapegoats for all that is wrong, in the matters under our jurisdiction.

With these reservations I wish to express my support for the motion.

MR. KENNETH Lo:-Mr. Chairman, at the outset, I should like to make clear that I support the general aims of the report. At present, people in Hong Kong are apathetic concerning public affairs. This is shown in the small percentage who have voted in Urban Council Elections in recent years. People feel that there is no useful part for them to play and that there is no way for them to participate. This is a state of mind which should be altered. Dividing Hong Kong into different districts, each with its own district council should stimulate greater interest. The ordinary resident would become more interested in the affairs of his own district and should feel in closer contact with government.

I have certain reservations however concerning some of the recommendations which I feel that I must express in this council. I am concerned whether the taking over of responsibility for numerous additional functions by the council would in fact lead to greater efficiency in carrying out those functions. In particular, I have in mind those two big and very important departments; the Education and Medical departments.

Next, I come to the important question of finance. The proposal is that rates and certain licence fees etc. should go to the different district councils. Each district council would then use the money within its own district for its own purposes. This would create more problems than it would solve. I think we should retain the present structure of finance whereby the whole cost of government is paid out of one central fund. I am aware that in the United Kingdom and elsewhere local authorities collect rates and spend these funds within its own district. This situation has arisen for historical reasons and is not necessarily the best way of financing local government. I understand that in the United Kingdom an increasing share of the cost of local government is being borne by the Central Government.

It would lead to unnecessary difficulties for each district council to have its own direct source of finance. For instance, it may happen that facilities and amenities which are physically situated in one district may in fact be intended for use mainly by the residents of another district. For instance, you may want to build a park or recreation ground in the New Territories just outside Kowloon for use mainly by Kowloon residents. I know that in talking about parks and recreation grounds I am trespassing on Mr. SALES' territory. I hope he will forgive me.

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

In the case I have mentioned, there may be arguments concerning payment. Which district council is to pay for the park? If the cost is to be shared, in what proportion? There would be none of this if there was only one treasury. And Hong Kong is small enough and compact enough for one central system of finance to be sufficient.

With these reservations, I will vote for the motion which is now before the council.

MR. RAFEEK-Mr. Chairman, the Report of the Ad Hoc Committee on the future scope and operation of the Urban Council will I think, speaking in general terms, meet with everyone's approval. We now have a blueprint for greater participation in local government affairs by the people of Hong Kong which, while on the one hand, gives opportunities for the Central Government administration to be made more aware of the needs and wishes of the people, yet does not open the way for anarchy or personal aggrandisement in the conduct of local government affairs.

There are some points in the report which, I submit, call for comment.

In the first instance I think that the name of the proposed new body is very important. There is frequent complaint among responsible people, educators in particular, that our youth and especially the more educated among them, have no loyalty to Hong Kong and no sense of belonging here even though they have been born and live here. For the majority of them Hong Kong is just a stage in their life's journey. It is a very unhealthy state of affairs. The accidents of politics are responsible in some measure for this but a partial remedy can be found precisely in the scheme we are now discussing. If Hong Kong is not to be independent, and will not be in the foreseeable future, since it is in its own best interest not to be, then political maturity and civic maturity will not be possible for the majority of our educated young people unless their interest and energies in things political and civic can be channelled into a lively and constructive interest in what are best-termed MUNICIPAL affairs.

In any country in the world where the municipality system, or its equivalent, exists the citizens of that municipality, whatever their origin, ethnic or social, take a keen interest in local affairs and development.

It would seem to me then that the title of the new body should be; "The Hong Kong Municipal Assembly". I draw particular attention to this for two reasons; the need for developing among the increasing number of our educated youth a sense of belonging here and a sense of civic responsibility, which I submit can best be done by developing the Municipal mentality and secondly the fact that the word Council has overtones of being merely advisory to a rather impersonal central

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