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DR. BELL: Mr. Chairman, are you satisfied that the effluent from the septic tanks is perfectly all right to go into the water near the beaches?
DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS: I am not a doctor, Mr. Chairman. I understand that it should be all right if the septic tanks are not interfered with too much. My experience is that engineers and doctors never agree on how septic tanks should be built and run, (laughter), but certainly it stops the solids even if the effluent might be bacteriologically objectionable from the medical point of view. It certainly prevents the solids and visually the water is very much better than it is in some parts of Hong Kong.
DR. BELL: Is the Director of Public Works suggesting that what the eye doesn't see...
(Laughter).
DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS: It is interesting, Mr. Chairman, that screening is a very definite part of sewage disposal. I have had this out with my friend Dr. LEE across the table before now. The general system of sewage disposal in Hong Kong is tending now towards screening the crude sewage, that is to break up the solids and then to discharge them into tidal waters some half or three quarters of a mile from the shore. This breaking up of the solids aids dispersion, I think is the right word, and certainly the effect of the oxygen in the salt water is very much quicker than it would be if it had to deal with solids. I think the same would apply even to the bacteriologically impure effluent from the septic tank.
DR. BELL: Mr. Chairman, what are the regulations covering the cleaning of such tanks, and how are we ensured that they are carried out?
CHAIRMAN: I would have to look into that. (Laughter).
MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, I refer to the second paragraph of your reply. Can you tell this Council, please, why it is that more staff and money are not made available to cope with the situation?
CHAIRMAN: Sir, it is my impression that as far as the beaches of the urban area are concerned, improvements are carried out under the direction, guidance and stimulus of the appropriate Select Committee, of which you are the Chairman, and that attempts are made to introduce improvements which your Select Committee feels are desirable. I would mention that in recent years some substantial advances have been made in the care of beaches.
MR. SALES: Sir, are you aware that not all the improvements that the Select Committee wants have been introduced by your Department, possibly because of shortage of staff and money?
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
CHAIRMAN: That may well be so, Sir.
159
MR. SALES: Could you, Sir, in the circumstances make representations to Government for more staff and money in order that the Select Committee may give the public the amenities of a standard that the public expects?
CHAIRMAN: I will certainly do so, Sir.
DR. BELL: Mr. Chairman, as regards the second part of the question concerning the accessibility of beaches, I am referring to Kowloon where in the Urban Areas there are extremely few beaches, I think that as far as I know there is only one, and that it has been recommended that it should not be used. Therefore, when I refer to Kowloon, I am referring to gazetted beaches, and I found that on the approaches to these beaches recently when I visited them, that some of them were extremely dangerous, and I do not think by any means that everything has been done that should have been done. Would you please see if something can be done quickly for the very popular beach Clearwater Bay Beach—where I'm told that 9,000 people go on a Sunday.
CHAIRMAN: I have had the advantage of reading your illuminating notes on the visits made by yourself and the members of your ad hoc committee, and I am sure that when your report is presented to the Urban Amenities Select Committee it will receive most sympathetic consideration by the department.
DR. BELL: Mr. Chairman, with regard to the third part of the answer, where you say that you didn't think the Council had been dilatory in the matter regarding changing-rooms on the beaches—again I am referring to Kowloon so again I am referring to gazetted beaches, and in those cases where Government has not tendered out changing-rooms to the public where there is no contractor, I found that there was an absence of changing-rooms. Could it please be possible that there is somewhere on every gazetted beach where men and women can have places where they can go and change.
CHAIRMAN: In regard to this part of the question, I was, of course, referring to the gazetted beaches in the urban area, which are the specific responsibility of this Council. I therefore do not think that if there is anything lacking in the beaches in the New Territories, the blame can be laid at the door of this Council, although it can, perhaps, be laid at the door of the department. Again I would refer to your notes, which I have had the advantage of seeing, and I can assure you that action will be taken on your report in due course.
DR. BELL: Mr. Chairman, presumably the Department has not expected the two thirds majority of population in Kowloon who have...
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Page 90 of 382
158
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
DR. BELL:Mr. Chairman, are you satisfied that the effluent from the septic tanks, is perfectly all right to go into the water near the beaches?
DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS:-I am not a doctor, Mr. Chairman. I understand that it should be all right if the septic tanks are not in- terfered with too much. My experience is that engineers and doctors never agree on how septic tanks should be built and run, (laughter), but certainly it stops the solids even if the effluent might be bacter- iologically objectionable from the medical point of view. It certainly prevents the solids and visually the water is very much better than it is in some parts of Hong Kong.
DR. BELL:-Is the Director of Public Works suggesting that what the eye doesn't see,
(Laughter).
DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS:-It is interesting, Mr. Chairman, that screening is a very definite part of sewage disposal. I have had this out with my friend Dr. LEE across the table before now. The general system of sewage disposal in Hong Kong is tending now towards screening the crude sewage, that is to break up the solids and then to discharge them into tidal waters some half or three quarters of a mile from the shore. This breaking up of the solids aids, dispersion, I think is the right word, and certainly the effect of the oxygen in the salt water is very much quicker than it would be if it had to deal with solids. I think the same would apply even to the bacteriologically impure effluent from the septic tank.
DR. BELL:Mr. Chairman, what are the regulations covering the cleaning of such tanks, and how are we ensured that they are carried out?
CHAIRMAN:-I would have to look into that. (Laughter).
MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, I refer to the second paragraph of your reply. Can you tell this Council, please, why it is that more staff and money are not made available to cope with the situation?
CHAIRMAN: --Sir, it is my impression that as far as the beaches of the urban area are concerned, improvements are carried out under the direction, guidance and stimulus of the appropriate Select Committee, of which you are the Chairman, and that attempts are made to introduce improvements which your Select Committee feels are desirable. I would mention that in recent years some substantial advances have been made in the care of beaches.
MR. SALES-Sir, are you aware that not all the improvements that the Select Committee wants have been introduced by your Depart- ment, possibly because of shortage of staff and money?
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
CHAIRMAN:-That may well be so, Sir.
159
MR. SALES: -Could you, Sir, in the circumstances make represen- tations to Government for more staff and money in order that the Select Committee may give the public the amenities of a standard that the public expects?
CHAIRMAN:-I will certainly do so, Sir.
DR. BELL:-Mr. Chairman, as regards the second part of the ques- tion concerning the accessibility of beaches, I am referring to Kowloon where in the Urban Areas there are extremely few beaches, I think that as far as I know there is only one, and that it has been recom- mended that it should not be used. Therefore, when I refer to Kow- loon, I am referring to gazetted beaches, and I found that on the approaches to these beaches recently when I visited them, that some of them were extremely dangerous, and I do not think by any means that everything has been done that should have been done. Would you please see if something can be done quickly for the very popular beach Clearwater Bay Beach-where I'm told that 9,000 people go on a Sunday.
CHAIRMAN:-I have had the advantage of reading your illumina- ting notes on the visits made by yourself and the members of your ad hoc committee, and I am sure that when your report is presented to the Urban Amenities Select Committee it will receive most sympathetic consideration by the department.
DR. BELL:-Mr. Chairman, with regard to the third part of the answer, where you say that you didn't think the Council had been dilatory in the matter regarding changing-rooms on the beaches—again I am referring to Kowloon so again I am referring to gazetted beaches, and in those cases where Government has not tendered out changing- rooms to the public where there is no contractor, I found that there was an absence of changing-rooms. Could it please be possible that there is somewhere on every gazetted beach where men and women can have places where they can go and change.
CHAIRMAN:-In regard to this part of the question, I was, of course, referring to the gazetted beaches in the urban area, which are the specific responsibility of this Council. I therefore do not think that if there is anything lacking in the beaches in the New Territories, the blame can be laid at the door of this Council, although it can, perhaps, be laid at the door of the department. Again I would refer to your notes, which I have had the advantage of seeing, and I can assure you that action will be taken on your report in due course.
DR. BELL:-Mr. Chairman, presumably the Department has not expected the two thirds majority of population in Kowloon who have
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