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DR. LEE-I can assure you that members of the Reform Club are not a group of scheming men. The first time I saw a copy of this motion was when I was interviewing applicants for certain jobs in the Drugs Addicts Society, when Dr. Woo rushed into my room and said, "Have you seen this Raymond? We have studied this in the Environmental Hygiene Select Committee. After having said what we have said, could you support it?" Subsequently I met Mr. BERNACCHI, just before the Princess left the Colony, and I told him what I was going to say frankly, and what transpired in the Environmental Hygiene Select Committee, of which I have the privilege of being the Chairman. When Mr. BERNACCHI sent his motion to the Secretary of the Urban Council, he was made aware that the Environmental Hygiene Select Committee had discussed and made some observation on Government's proposed scheme for voluntary management of subdivided buildings. Without divulging the whole contents of the proposal, the scheme will apply in accordance with the provisions of a Deed of Mutual Covenant or the creation of a Corporation to charge the terms of any Deed of Mutual Covenant. As everyone knows, the problems which Mr. BERNACCHI and Dr. BELL have mentioned are not entirely those of health matters arising from the multiple ownership of subdivided buildings. But they are very difficult and vexed questions.
I bow to Mr. BERNACCHI's superior experience and judgment as a senior barrister in this Colony in such matters, because personally I have very little to do with divided buildings because first of all I am not a landlord, and secondly I am not an agent of a landlord. (Laughter).
I agreed to hear Mr. BERNACCHI's submission on the understanding that his motion would be complementary to the one we have studied in committee, as his motion touches upon the period before the legislation can be enacted. I cannot but agree. (Laughter).
MR. SALES-Was the word "but" inserted by Mr. BERNACCHI? (Laughter).
DR. LEE-No, I can faithfully tell Mr. SALES that I didn't show Mr. BERNACCHI a copy of this speech, because I only drafted it last night at midnight. (Laughter).
I cannot but agree to hear Mr. BERNACCHI out. After all it will be some time before it will reach Legislative Council for the final stage of passing the legislation, and I hope it will be shown to this Council. As some members expressed very strongly,-Dr. BELL has just said it, that we must see this draft before it becomes final legislation. I don't see how anyone can object to this principle, because the paper was referred to the Environmental Hygiene Select Committee for comment, as well as for information, and as everyone knows, there is no shortage of legal luminaries in this Council to give expert opinion in such matters as legislation. With these observations, Mr. Chairman, I have much pleasure in supporting my learned and gallant colleague's motion.
DR. WOO:-I am very pleased to give my full support to Mr. BERNACCHI's motion though it would undoubtedly involve some technical difficulties in its implementation. I am sure Members are all aware of the difficulties that at present exist in the management of multi-storeyed buildings. Indeed, I can speak from my personal experience that no matter how perfect a scheme of voluntary management is, it can seldom be completely successful because of the selfishness of some of the owners or occupiers who refuse to co-operate. Mr. BERNACCHI's motion is concerned with the health aspect of a building, which of course is most important, but there are many other aspects in its management and maintenance which must be taken into consideration too. To quote an example from the building where I live: during the water crisis three years ago, on account of the very poor supply of water in our building, the Water Authority suggested that we should arrange for re-piping to be done. At that time no tenant gave any objection to paying for the cost, yet having enjoyed an adequate supply, a few have up to now refused to pay their share, and when requested to pay the amount, they even said they no longer wished to be associated with the management committee of the building. This is but one of the many instances to show the selfishness of some of the owners or tenants wherein lies the main difficulty for the effective carrying out of any scheme of voluntary management for multi-storeyed buildings. Perhaps Government would argue that in such cases as the one I quoted above, the cost could always be recovered in the court of law. But is it worthwhile to appeal to the court of law to recover such small sums of money? And who should be responsible to attend the court to make the appeal or if one of the members in the management committee is to appear in court no one will be willing to serve in the committee, or if it is necessary to engage the help of a lawyer who is responsible for the legal fee? Similar complaints have been received in my ward office. Personally, I think that if these owners or occupiers cannot be persuaded to co-operate for the welfare of their building, the only solution is that they must be guided by law.
Mr. BERNACCHI's motion is therefore opportune as long as Government does not intend to introduce compulsory management. I am also in favour of his proposal that whatever legislation is to be proposed by Government, advice from this Council must first be sought in order to ensure that the best possible advice is obtained from all directions.
Mr. Chairman, I strongly support Mr. BERNACCHI's motion.
MR. HU:-Mr. Chairman, may I say a few words to support this motion?
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Page 372 of 382
Page 372 of 382
722
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
DR. LEE-I can assure you that members of the Reform Club are not a group of scheming men. The first time I saw a copy of this motion was when I was interviewing applicants for certain jobs in the Drugs Addicts Society, when Dr. Woo rushed into my room and said, "Have you seen this Raymond? We have studied this in the Environmental Hygiene Select Committee. After having said what we have said, could you support it?" Subsequently I met Mr. BERNACCHI, just before the Princess left the Colony, and I told him what I was going to say frankly, and what transpired in the Environmental Hygiene Select Committee, of which I have the privilege of being the Chairman. When Mr. BERNACCHI sent his motion to the Secretary of the Urban Council, he was made aware that the Environmental Hygiene Select Committee had discussed and made some observation on Government's proposed scheme for voluntary management of subdivided buildings. Without divulging the whole contents of the proposal, the scheme will apply in accordance with the provisions of a Deed of Mutual Covenant or the creation of a Corporation to charge the terms of any Deed of Mutual Covenant. As everyone knows, the problems which Mr. BERNACCHI and Dr. BELL have mentioned are not entirely those of health matters arising from the multiple ownership of subdivided buildings. But they are very difficult and vexed questions.
I bow to Mr. BERNACCHI's superior experience and judgment as a senior barrister in this Colony in such matters, because personally I have very little to do with divided buildings because first of all I am not a landlord, and secondly I am not an agent of a landlord. (Laughter).
I agreed to hear Mr. BERNACCHI's submission on the understanding that his motion would be complementary to the one we have studied in committee, as his motion touches upon the period before the legis- lation can be enacted. I cannot but agree. (Laughter).
MR. SALES-Was the word "but" inserted by Mr. BERNACCHI? (Laughter).
DR. LEE-No, I can faithfully tell Mr. SALES that I didn't show Mr. BERNACCHI a copy of this speech, because I only drafted it last night at mid-night. (Laughter).
I cannot but agree to hear Mr. BERNACCHI out. After all it will be some time before it will reach Legislative Council for the final stage of passing the legislation, and I hope it will be shown to this Council. As some members expressed very strongly,-Dr. BELL has just said it, that we must see this draft before it becomes final legislation. I don't see how anyone can object to this principle, because the paper was referred to the Environmental Hygiene Select Committee for comment, as well as for information, and as everyone knows, there is no shortage
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of legal luminaries in this Council to give expert opinion in such matters as legislation. With these observations, Mr. Chairman, I have much pleasure in supporting my learned and gallant colleague's motion.
DR. WOO:-I am very pleased to give my full support to Mr. BERNACCHI's motion though it would undoubtedly involve some technical difficulties in its implementation. I am sure Members are all aware of the difficulties that at present exist in the management of multi-storeyed buildings. Indeed, I can speak from my personal experience that no matter how perfect a scheme of voluntary management is, it can seldom be completely successful because of the selfishness of some of the owners or occupiers who refuse to co-operate. Mr. BERNACCHI's motion is con- cerned with the health aspect of a building, which of course is most important, but there are many other aspects in its management and maintenance which must be taken into consideration too. To quote an example from the building where I live: during the water crisis three years ago, on account of the very poor supply of water in our building, the Water Authority suggested that we should arrange for re-piping to be done. At that time no tenant gave any objection to paying for the cost, yet having enjoyed an adequate supply, a few have up to now refused to pay their share, and when requested to pay the amount, they even said they no longer wished to be associated with the manage- ment committee of the building. This is but one of the many instances to show the selfishness of some of the owners or tenants wherein lies the main difficulty for the effective carrying out of any scheme of voluntary management for multi-storeyed buildings. Perhaps Govern- ment would argue that in such cases as the one I quoted above, the cost could always be recovered in the court of law. But is it worthwhile to appeal to the court of law to recover such small sums of money? And who should be responsible to attend the court to make the appeal or if one of the members in the management committee is to appear in court no one will be willing to serve in the committee, or if it is neces- sary to engage the help of a lawyer who is responsible for the legal fee? Similar complaints have been received in my ward office. Personally, I think that if these owners or occupiers cannot be persuaded to co- operate for the welfare of their building, the only solution is that they must be guided by law.
Mr. BERNACCHI's motion is therefore opportune as long as Govern- ment does not intend to introduce compulsory management. I am also in favour of his proposal that whatever legislation is to be proposed by Government, advice from this Council must first be sought in order to ensure that the best possible advice is obtained from all directions.
Mr. Chairman, I strongly support Mr. BERNACCHI's motion.
MR. HU:-Mr. Chairman, may I say a few words to support this motion?
No comments yet.
Private notes are available after approval.