Page 341 of 382
660
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
Therefore, Confucius said: 'Only to be good is not enough to rule the people; the law cannot be enforced without men.' (Chinese quoted).
In other words, rule either by man or by law is indispensable one to the other. Otherwise, although the system itself is good, there are bound to be effects if there are only laws but nobody to enforce them.
And now another one from Tin Tin Yat Po
"We feel that the fundamental task of an Ombudsman is to exalt the constitutional spirit in Hong Kong. Through the working of an Ombudsman system, more and more public opinion should find its way to the legislative body, and the people on the executive side will practise full impartiality as well as devoid of mistake or slip, etc. So, the presence of an Ombudsman will no doubt be welcome by the whole population of Hong Kong."
May I in closing, Mr. Chairman, inform you that similar expressions in support of an Ombudsman system for Hong Kong have also appeared in no less than six other newspapers, the South China Morning Post, Tiger Standard, China Mail, Wah Kiu Yat Po, Sing Tao Jih Pao and Fai Po.
Sir, I support the Motion.
MR. HU:- Mr. Chairman, I would say a few words in view of Mrs. ELLIOTT's speech. In her speech she said in any case the head of the department is unlikely to reverse the decisions of his own department. I have a lot of examples of such cases, because when an inferior officer in a department makes a mistake, some mistakes are very obvious. I really don't know why the head of the department supports such a mistake. Some mistakes, I think the Council would agree with me, are very obvious, and I don't see why a head of department would want to protect his subordinate when in his conscience he knows it is wrong. Sometimes in our Select Committees, for example, some members have said, "this is our man, we must protect him" - that sort of thought is entirely wrong. I hope the establishment of this Ombudsman system will do away with such wrong thoughts. I think if we could get fundamental reform ourselves in our thoughts, I think the political atmosphere in the Colony would be much clearer. With these remarks I support the motion.
CHAIRMAN:- I now put the Motion before Council.
Motion carried.
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
(2) MRS. E. ELLIOTT moved the following motion:
661
That this Council express concern to Government that some Civil Servants, especially in the lower echelons, responsible for law and order in Hong Kong, use their position to express threats of deportation against law-abiding citizens.
She said: Mr. Chairman, in proposing this motion, I am not unmindful of the words of the Attorney General, Mr. Maurice HEENAN, Q.C., at the opening of the 1966 Assizes. On that occasion, the Attorney General is reported to have said that if any deportation threats were being made in connexion with minor offences, the threats were "entirely empty". The Attorney General reportedly went on to say that the Colony deportation regulations were put to only "limited use", and were "reserved for those cases where the protection of society demands their use".
I do not doubt that the original intention of the deportation regulations was the protection of our society in Hong Kong. I do not doubt that often such threats are empty, a kind of bogey to frighten the ignorant people into obedience.
There was a time years ago when I too should have disbelieved if I had been told that these threats were not just "empty threats". I used to work amongst what were then called "refugees". I often heard them complain that if they spoke against anything the Government did, or if they reported malpractices, they would be in danger of deportation. I laughed off such statements as hearsay, and always told the people to disregard that kind of talk. They were not convinced; and now it is I who am not convinced that such threats are always just hearsay, or empty.
It is commonly said that the threat of deportation is used thousands of times a day. I am prepared to believe that this may be hearsay, or, at worst, in many cases the threats are intended as bogeys to frighten obstreperous hawkers. Even so, it is deplorable that ignorant people should be unduly frightened into obedience. Besides, such threats can be used to cover up malpractices, and for this reason alone, are to be deplored.
In the past two years, however, I have found that these threats are used in all seriousness, and I should like to quote three examples known to me personally, in which threats were used in connection with serious offences; in one case the threat was carried out.
I am constantly told, "Don't generalize, give examples". Well, here I am giving examples. One case concerns a hawker, who was alleged to have been seriously injured by an officer of the law. Though I did
Page 341 of 382
Page 341 of 382
660
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
Therefore, Confucius said: 'Only to be good is not enough to rule the people; the law cannot be enforced without men.' (Chinese quoted).
In other words, rule either by man or by law is indispensable one to the other. Otherwise, although the system itself is good, there are bound to be effects if there are only laws but nobody to enforce them."
And now another one from. Tin Tin Yat Po
"We feel that the fundamental task of an Ombudsman is to exalt the constitutional spirit in Hong Kong. Through the working of an Ombudsman system, more and more public opinion should find its way to the legislative body, and the people on the executive side will practise full impartiality as well as devoid of mistake or slip, etc. So, the presence of an Ombudsman will no doubt be welcome by the whole population of Hong Kong."
May I in closing, Mr. Chairman, inform you that similar expressions in support of an Ombudsman system for Hong Kong have also appeared in no less than six other newspapers, the South China Morning Post, Tiger Standard, China Mail, Wah Kiu Yat Po, Sing Tao Jih Pao and Fai Po.
Sir, I support the Motion.
MR. HU:-Mr. Chairman, I would say a few words in view of Mrs. ELLIOTT's speech. In her speech she said in any case the head of the department is unlikely to reverse the decisions of his own department. I have a lot of examples of such cases, because when an inferior officer in a department makes a mistake, some mistakes are very obvious. I really don't know why the head of the department supports such a mistake. Some mistakes, I think the Council would agree with me, are very obvious, and I don't see why a head of department would want to protect his subordinate when in his conscience he knows it is wrong. Some times in our Select Committees for example, some members have said, this is our man, we must protect him that sort of thought is entirely wrong. I hope the establishment of this Ombudsman system will do away with such wrong thoughts. I think if we could get funda- mental reform ourselves in our thoughts, I think the political atmosphere in the Colony would be much clearer. With these remarks I support the motion.
CHAIRMAN:-I now put the Motion before Council.
Motion carried.
!
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
(2) MRS. E. ELLIOTT moved the following motion:
661
That this Council express concern to Government that some Civil Servants, especially in the lower echelons, respon- sible for law and order in Hong Kong, use their position to express threats of deportation against law-abiding
citizens.
She said: Mr. Chairman, in proposing this motion, I am not unmindful of the words of the Attorney General, Mr. Maurice HEENAN, Q.C., at the opening of the 1966 Assizes. On that occasion, the Attorney General is reported to have said that if any deportation threats were being made in connexion with minor offences, the threats were "entirely empty". The Attorney General reportedly went on to say that the Colony deportation regulations were put to only "limited use", and were "reserved for those cases where the protection of society demands their use".
I do not doubt that the original intention of the deportation regulations was the protection of our society in Hong Kong. I do not doubt that often such threats are empty, a kind of bogey to frighten the ignorant people into obedience.
There was a time years ago when I too should have disbelieved if I had been told that these threats were not just "empty threats". I used to work amongst what were then called "refugees". I often heard them complain that if they spoke against anything the Govern- ment did, or if they reported malpractices, they would be in danger of deportation. I laughed off such statements as hearsay, and always told the people to disregard that kind of talk. They were not convinced; and now it is I who am not convinced that such threats are always just hearsay, or empty.
It is commonly said that the threat of deportation is used thousands of times a day. I am prepared to believe that this may be hearsay, or, at worst, in many cases the threats are intended as bogeys to frighten obstreperous hawkers. Even so, it is deplorable that ignorant people should be unduly frightened into obedience. Besides, such threats can be used to cover up malpractices, and for this reason alone, are to be deplored.
In the past two years, however, I have found that these threats are used in all seriousness, and I should like to quote three examples known to me personally, in which threats were used in connection with serious offences; in one case the threat was carried out.
I am constantly told, “Don't generalize, give examples". Well, here
I am giving examples. One case concerns a hawker, who was alleged to have been seriously injured by an officer of the law. Though I did
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