HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
number of people seeking help there, compared with the number that attend the ward offices in spite of the inability of the ward officers to deal with some of the matters that are brought. In fact, an Ombudsman chosen from the ones who make the laws which they are to investigate is ludicrous, an insult to the intelligence of the people.
Sir, I support the Motion by Mr. CHEUNG Wing-in.
MR. FUNG:-Mr. Chairman, while supporting this motion on Ombudsman by my friend Mr. CHEUNG Wing-in, I feel that for this system to be effective the person or body of persons appointed to this office should be entirely separate from Government and wholly unconnected with the Executive, Legislative and Urban Councils, and vested with powers to investigate grievances and complaints, to examine and inspect documents which would not otherwise be available.
It may well happen that some complaints or criticisms may be directed towards members of this Council or those of the higher Councils, in which event it could not be said that the problem or complaint may be examined in the light of a detached attitude.
If this Council considers that the Ombudsman system should be applied in Hong Kong for the benefit of the people then we should consider the system in its pure form to be effective and not a variation, the result of which is that the public will still not have direct access to the Ombudsman except through the UMELCO and the Ward system. I can envisage a citizen feeling aggrieved that either the Umelco or the Ward office has unfairly refused to pursue his complaint, and he may want to complain to the Ombudsman. We will again find that the Umelco or the Ward will be judge and jury in its own cause.
I would also sir, like to take exception to what Mrs. ELLIOTT said, that the UMELCO Office had not proved very useful. She is probably not aware of the amount of work done by the UMELCO Office in matters of complaints from the public.
MR. BERNACCHI:-In supporting this Motion, I should like to make the point that if the office is created it should be held,
(1) by one person, being a non-Government servant in the sense that he is not a part of the Colonial civil service;
(2) That he should be full time. The trouble with unofficial members of the Councils in Hong Kong, is that they are only part-time, perhaps I should say over-time.
(3) Therefore he must be paid a reasonable salary, and be a person who is able to achieve the confidence both of the public and of honest and devoted civil servants, who I can but believe are the vast majority of our civil service,
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
MR. RAFEEK:-Mr. Chairman, I rise to give my full support to the motion moved by my colleague, Mr. CHEUNG Wing-in, and seconded by our Senior Councillor Mr. SALES because I believe that the Ombudsman system can do nothing but good for Hong Kong. In 1960 when I visited Copenhagen together with other Kaifong leaders at the invitation of the Danish Government, we had the opportunity to make a first-hand study of the Ombudsman principle in operation.
Whether or not the Ombudsman system for Hong Kong takes the form of an individual or of a Committee is not important at this stage. What is more important is that Government should be prepared to accept the principle of establishing an Ombudsman system.
The Ombudsman principle has its roots in Chinese cultural history. In the Four Books, Duke Oi is quoted as follows:
哀公問曰,何為是民服,孔子對曰,舉直錯諸枉則民服
The Duke Of asked, saying "What should be done in order to secure the co-operation of the people?" Confucius replied "advance the upright and investigate the wrongs, then the people will co-operate".
In contemporary history in China, the Supervisory Committee system, which is a variation of the Ombudsman principle, has been part of the administrative system of social life of the people.
It is, therefore, no wonder that the Hong Kong Community, and the local press, both Chinese and English, have given their endorsement to the idea of an Ombudsman for Hong Kong.
Mr. Chairman, may I quote extracts from some of the Editorials on this subject:-
Kung Sheung Yat Po
"As far as the political system is concerned, although the introduction of an Ombudsman system is an innovation, it did exist in ancient China.
In China since the Tang Dynasty, high commissioners who were sent by emperors to investigate cases among people and censors who were entrusted with the task of censuring officials, be they high-ranking or low-grade, performed similar duties to that of an Ombudsman.
As one is aware, regardless of whether the political system is democratic or monarchial, whether the law is perfect or whether officials are discharging their duties squarely, depend largely on the human factor and should not be determined by the system itself.
Page 340
Page 341
382
Page 340 of 382
658
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
number of people seeking help there, compared with the number that attend the ward offices in spite of the inability of the ward officers to deal with some of the matters that are brought. In fact, an Ombuds- man chosen from the ones who make the laws which they are to investigate is ludicrous, an insult to the intelligence of the people.
Sir, I support the Motion by Mr. CHEUNG Wing-in.
MR. FUNG:-Mr. Chairman, while supporting this motion on Ombudsman by my friend Mr. CHEUNG Wing-in, I feel that for this system to be effective the person or body of persons appointed to this office should be entirely separate from Government and wholly un- connected with the Executive, Legislative and Urban Councils, and vested with powers to investigate grievances and complaints, to examine and inspect documents which would not otherwise be available.
It may well happen that some complaints or criticisms may be directed towards members of this Council or those of the higher Councils, in which event it could not be said that the problem or complaint may be examined in the light of a detached attitude.
If this Council considers that the Ombudsman system should be applied in Hong Kong for the benefit of the people then we should consider the system in its pure form to be effective and not a variation, the result of which is that the public will still not have direct access to the Ombudsman except through the UMELCO and the Ward system. I can envisage a citizen feeling aggrieved that either the Umelco or the Ward office has unfairly refused to pursue his complaint, and he may want to complain to the Ombudsman. We will again find that the Umelco or the Ward will be judge and jury in its own cause.
I would also sir, like to take exception to what Mrs. ELLIOTT said, that the UMELCO Office had not proved very useful. She is probably not aware of the amount of work done by the UMELCO Office in matters of complaints from the public.
MR. BERNACCHI:-In supporting this Motion, I should like to make the point that if the office is created it should be held,
(1) by one person, being a non-Government servant in the sense
that he is not a part of the Colonial civil service;
(2) That he should be full time. The trouble with unofficial members of the Councils in Hong Kong, is that they are only part-time, perhaps I should say over-time.
(3) Therefore he must be paid a reasonable salary, and be a person who is able to achieve the confidence both of the public and of honest and devoted civil servants, who I can but believe are the vast majority of our civil service,
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
659
MR. RAFEEK:-Mr. Chairman, I rise to give my full support to the motion moved by my colleague, Mr. CHEUNG Wing-in, and seconded by our Senior Councillor Mr. SALES because I believe that the Ombudsman system can do nothing but good for Hong Kong. In 1960 when I visited Copenhagen together with other Kaifong leaders at the invitation of the Danish Government, we had the opportunity to make a first-hand study of the Ombudsman principle in operation.
Whether or not the Ombudsman system for Hong Kong takes the form of an individual or of a Committee is not important at this stage. What is more important is that Government should be prepared to accept the principle of establishing an Ombudsman system.
The Ombudsman principle has its roots in Chinese cultural history. In the Four Books, Duke Oi is quoted as follows:
哀公問曰,何為是民服,孔子對曰,舉直錯諸枉則民服
The Duke Of asked, saying "What should be done in order to secure the co-operation of the people?" Confucius replied "advance the upright and investigate the wrongs, then the people will co-operate".
In contemporary history in China, the Supervisory Committee system, which is a variation of the Ombudsman principle, has been part of the administrative system of social life of the people.
It is, therefore, no wonder that the Hong Kong Community, and the local press, both Chinese and English, have given their endorsement to the idea of an Ombudsman for Hong Kong.
Mr. Chairman, may I quote extracts from some of the Editorials on this subject:-
Kung Sheung Yat Po
"As far as the political system is concerned, although the introduction of an Ombudsman system is an innovation, it did exist in ancient China.
In China since the Tang Dynasty, high commissioners who were sent by emperors to investigate cases among people and censors who were entrusted with the task of censuring officials, be they high-ranking or low-grade, performed similar duties to that of an Ombudsman.
As one is aware, regardless of whether the political system is democratic or monarchial, whether the law is perfect or whether officials are discharging their duties squarely, depend largely on the human factor and should not be determined by the system itself.
Page 340Page 341
1682
No comments yet.
Private notes are available after approval.