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to arrive before they are opened to the public, and Mr. Lo can rest assured that what he has raised to-day in this Council meeting has been the subject of discussion by the select committee for quite a long time. On the 17th December we finally insisted with the Department that we should as far as possible have the equipment made in Hong Kong, so that such delays would be avoided in the future, apart from the far more important consideration of giving employment to the local people about which we are very earnest.

MR. BERNACCHI:-Is it right that one children's playground in Chai Wan has been waiting for equipment for two years now?

MR. SALES: It is quite possible that Chai Wan may be in the list, but I believe that the case of Chai Wan is a bit more complicated, because at one time it wasn't certain whether the equipment would be paid for from the Urban Council's block vote or by outside organizations, and so that also may possibly have a bearing on the delay, but I can assure Mr. BERNACCHI that his ward has not been prejudiced in any way; even my own ward is suffering considerably from the delay.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, in view of what has been said so far, could an extra effort be made by the department to approach the president of the Chinese Manufactuers' Association, Mr. WONG Tok-sau, who is busily engaged now in organizing a "Buy Hong Kong" campaign, and enlist his good offices to see which factory in Hong Kong can make some of the equipment which is badly needed for our playgrounds.

MR. SALES: Sir, Mr. CHEONG-LEEN prompts me to disclose the fact, as your Department probably knows, I study the periodicals of Park Administration and look over the equipment very carefully to see whether such equipment is available in Hong Kong for use of the children, and if not, I would like to know why not. I assure Mr. CHEONG-LEEN that the Urban Services Department is most conscious of the fact that more equipment should be made here, and that greater diversity of such equipment should be made available to the children.

MR. FUNG: Sir, for playground equipment that cannot be made in Hong Kong, have we ever tried to buy from another market than Great Britain?

MR. SALES: That of course is beyond the scope of the Urban Council. When it comes to a matter of purchases, I believe it is not within our territorial limits, it has to go to the Crown Agents when purchases are made abroad, but that matter has also been put to the Urban Services Department, because I saw some excellent equipment in children's playgrounds in Vienna, and I believe that such equipment of a very interesting nature is also available from Japan. I think the matter is under study.

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CHAIRMAN:-Sir, I am not aware that there is any objection in principle to purchasing from other sources if the equipment was of equivalent merit and quality, and I think if we haven't bought from Vienna or Japan it is either we don't know equipment is there, or it has been found that equipment just as good can be obtained from normal sources in the U.K.

MR. FORSGATE:-Could I suggest an ad hoc sub-committee to visit Disney Land? (Laughter).

MRS. LI: Mr. Chairman, as I understand the Hong Kong Housing Authority has designed some playground equipment themselves by an architect, and it was reported in my committee that it was quite satis- factory, very well done, could we not benefit from their design and have it also manufactured locally?

MR. SALES:-As a matter of fact we are doing that at the moment. The Housing Authority Finance Committee has to determine whether fees should be paid to the Housing Authority out of the Urban Amenities block vote, but I am quite sure we would be willing to do that.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, could I have a clearer answer to my question. Would the department be prepared to make another attempt and approach at this time the President of the Chinese Manufac- turers Association to see what more could be done?

CHAIRMAN: There would be no objection whatsoever to your proposal, Sir. The point is, if you want information about factories in Hong Kong, you can obtain it easily from the Director of Commerce and Industry. That is the usual method when we want to find out where things are made, we ring them up.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-I think it could be a little more than that Mr. Chairman, since both the Government and various associations have been preaching the need for diversity continuously, and here is a challenge for more diversity.

MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, may I once again invite Mr. CHEONG- LEEN to our Select Committee where we can talk at random about how to diversify children's equipment, to the advantage of local industry? MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, I don't believe in talking at random. (Laughter).

MR. Lo:--Mr. Chairman, as far as I know I don't think any difficulty lies in the making, but only in the design, and as my colleague Mrs. Li has rightly pointed out, the Housing Authority has already come out with some very good designs of children's playground equipment. I feel that we should make the best use of their design and try to make