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MRS. ELLIOTT:- Mr. Chairman, it is my belief that this resettlement policy was introduced for the sake of victims of dangerous buildings. I wonder if the Commissioner has found that in actual fact the worst cases are the ones who cannot afford to pay the rent in advance and that those who get resettlement are comparatively better off because they have got more compensation?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- I am afraid we have no form of means test for people coming out of dangerous buildings, and couldn't therefore say whether the others, that is those who don't get much compensation, are those who don't join the rent advance scheme. I think, nevertheless, that the refusal rate so far of only 14.4 per cent indicates that the scheme has been quite well received and is on the whole quite a success.
MR. BERNACCHI:- I would like to ask whether the last sentence of the question, the sentence beginning "In future, tenants of buildings" is in accordance with the White Paper or whether it is a variation to the White Paper?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: It is in accordance with the White Paper.
MRS. ELLIOTT:- Mr. Chairman, yes, I know that was in accordance with the White Paper, but I thought there was some arrangement whereby a tenant who genuinely could not afford to pay the rent in advance, could come under some special scheme - is it just a matter of waiting?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- There is this provision which has perhaps not been made entirely clear in my original answer, that if they are unable or unwilling to pay the rent advance immediately they are evicted from the dangerous building, they have twelve months in which to do so. In that event, if they do elect within twelve months to pay the rent advance, then they are entitled to resettlement.
MRS. ELLIOTT:- Mr. Chairman, I feel this policy is working out entirely in a different spirit from which it was intended, that is to relieve the worst cases of victims of dangerous buildings. The result is that when we begin sending them to the licensed areas, some of the victims of dangerous buildings who get very little compensation are going to be very much worse off, whereas those who are better off, and get more compensation, are the lucky ones. May I ask whether it would be possible to refer this back to the Policy Committee to reconsider the question?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- It will certainly be possible to refer this question back to the Policy Select Committee. Members will, however, appreciate that any modification of the decisions outlined in the White Paper require approval not only of this Council, but also of the Housing Board and the Governor-in-Council.
MR. BERNACCHI:- As Chairman of the Policy Select Committee, I think it would be useless referring it to the Policy Select Committee unless it was referred as well to the Special Housing Committee, I think it is called.
(At this point the Commissioner for Resettlement interrupted)
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- Housing Board.
MR. BERNACCHI:- Housing Board, thank you, because this Board has the power really to make amendments to the White Paper or recommend amendments to the White Paper, and of course the original Working Party's report did not contain this provision which was introduced into the White Paper; the original housing report, which was approved by this Council, recommended immediate resettlement for tenants of dangerous buildings.
MR. SALES:- Sir, may I suggest that the appropriate body to refer a modification of policy, before it is recommended to the Governor-in-Council, should be, in fact, the Standing Committee of the Whole Council. And when that is done may I also ask you, Sir, to refer the other aspect of public housing in Hong Kong about which I feel so strongly, that no provision was made in the White Paper for those people who are deprived of housing in consequence of Exemption Orders? I have said before that this is a most important aspect of public housing of which Government ought to be thoroughly ashamed: that these people who are the victims of Hong Kong's prosperity are not given the opportunity to be housed in resettlement estates and areas. I would like this matter to be brought before the Standing Committee of the Whole Council.
MR. BERNACCHI:- As a member of the former Working Party may I say I thoroughly support Mr. SALES in this statement.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- To seek further clarification of the last paragraph of the reply, do I understand it that any person who comes out of a dangerous building, from a building which has been declared dangerous, will most likely or will definitely be able to get resettlement after a period of at least two years?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- May I clarify that question. You mean the person who has come out of the dangerous building and who hadn't joined the rent advance?
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:- Not gone into the rent advance scheme, but who has been put in a resite area, a licensed area.
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Page 179 of 382
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MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, it is my belief that this resettlement policy was introduced for the sake of victims of dangerous buildings. I wonder if the Commissioner has found that in actual fact the worst cases are the ones who cannot afford to pay the rent in advance and that those who get resettlement are comparatively better off because they have got more compensation?
―
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:- I am afraid we have no form of means test for people coming out of dangerous buildings, and couldn't therefore say whether the others, that is those who don't get much compensation, are those who don't join the rent advance scheme. I think, nevertheless, that the refusal rate so far of only 14.4 per cent indicates that the scheme has been quite well received and is on the whole quite a success.
MR. BERNACCHI:-I would like to ask whether the last sentence of the question, the sentence beginning "In future, tenants of buildings" is in accordance with the White Paper or whether it is a variation to the White Paper?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT: It is in accordance with the White Paper.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, yes, I know that was in accord- ance with the White Paper, but I thought there was some arrangement whereby a tenant who genuinely could not afford to pay the rent in advance, could come under some special scheme-is it just a matter of waiting?
COMMISSIONER for ResettleMENT:-There is this provision which has perhaps not been made entirely clear in my original answer, that if they are unable or unwilling to pay the rent advance immediately they are evicted from the dangerous building, they have twelve months in which to do so. In that event, if they do elect within twelve months to pay the rent advance, then they are entitled to resettlement.
MRS. ELLIOTT:-Mr. Chairman, I feel this policy is working out entirely in a different spirit from which it was intended, that is to relieve the worst cases of victims of dangerous buildings. The result is that when we begin sending them to the licensed areas, some of the victims of dangerous buildings who get very little compensation are going to be very much worse off, whereas those who are better off, and get more compensation, are the lucky ones. May I ask whether it would be possible to refer this back to the Policy Committee to recon- sider the question?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-It will certainly be possible to refer this question back to the Policy Select Committee. Members will, however, appreciate that any modification of the decisions outlined
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
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in the White Paper require approval not only of this Council, but also of the Housing Board and the Governor-in-Council.
MR. BERNACCHI:-As Chairman of the Policy Select Committee, I think it would be useless referring it to the Policy Select Committee unless it was referred as well to the Special Housing Committee, I think it is called.
(At this point the Commissioner for Resettlement interrupted)
COMMISSIONER for ResettlEMENT:-Housing Board.
MR. BERNACCHI:-Housing Board, thank you, because this Board has the power really to make amendments to the White Paper or re- commend amendments to the White Paper, and of course the original Working Party's report did not contain this provision which was introduced into the White Paper; the original housing report, which was approved by this Council, recommended immediate resettlement for tenants of dangerous buildings.
Mr. Sales:-Sir, may I suggest that the appropriate body to refer a modification of policy, before it is recommended to the Governor-in- Council, should be, in fact, the Standing Committee of the Whole Council. And when that is done may I also ask you, Sir, to refer the other aspect of public housing in Hong Kong about which I feel so strongly, that no provision was made in the White Paper for those people who are deprived of housing in consequence of Exemption Orders? I have said before that this is a most important aspect of public housing of which Government ought to be thoroughly ashamed: that these people who are the victims of Hong Kong's prosperity are not given the opportunity to be housed in resettlement estates and areas. I would like this matter to be brought before the Standing Committee of the Whole Council,
MR. BERNACCHI:-As a member of the former Working Party may I say I thoroughly support Mr. SALES in this statement.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-To seek further clarification of the last para- graph of the reply, do I understand it that any person who comes out of a dangerous building, from a building which has been declared dangerous, will most likely or will definitely be able to get resettlement after a period of at least two years?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-May I clarify that question. You mean the person who has come out of the dangerous building and who hadn't joined the rent advance?
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Not gone into the rent advance scheme, but who has been put in a resite area, a licensed area.
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