1964 — Page 53

Urban Council Proceedings 市政局議事錄 All AI Reviewed

Page 53 of 312

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HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

That their report be laid on the table for discussion at a future meeting of the Council."

DR. P. F. Woo:- Mr. Chairman, I have much pleasure in seconding Mr. BERNACCHI's motion, and in doing so I wish to make a few observations. The Urban Council to-day, though having no legislative powers, is a highly responsible and important body of the Colony, for with the vast magnitude of its work and duty, it affects the greater part, if not the whole, of the community of Hong Kong. The Urban Council Elections should therefore be regarded as important events in the Colony. Yet, while the population here is nearly 4 million, the registered electorate amounts to less than 30,000. This is mainly because the categories of persons given the right to vote are too few. In fact, in the previous elections if a candidate won the support of only one category of people, the candidate would have a good chance of winning the election. In order to be fair to all concerned, the franchise should be extended to include, for example, nurses and certain categories of rate-payers. In this connexion, some people even argue that every individual should have the right to vote. This may seem democratic, but I think it is going too far, for just as a blind man would not be allowed in a democratic country to run freely in the street, until every individual knows what the right to vote is and means, I do not see how the right could be given to him.

It has been pointed out that if all the categories of people at present with the right to vote registered, the electorate in the register would be doubled or even trebled. I agree that this is true and that registration of the electorate has not been satisfactory so far. To encourage more people in the categories to register, there should be more publicity given to the cause, and all the departments concerned should invite or remind their members to register. For instance, the Education Department should remind the teachers and education officers; the Auxiliary Medical Service and the Civil Aid Services should remind their own members, and so on. There is in addition a very large number of people included in the exempted list, for example, the undergraduates of the Hong Kong University, and members of the religious orders—it should be made known to them that they are eligible to vote if they register. Another category of people on the exempted list are 40,000 to 50,000 civil servants, ranging from clerks to administrative officers. Since members of the Jury are automatically included in the register, is there any reason why all civil servants entitled to vote should not be automatically included in the register too? I hope that members of the Standing Orders Select Committee, to whom this motion is to be referred, will bear these points in mind when this motion is being deliberated.

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

85

MR. A. de O. SALES:- Mr. Chairman, when this matter was discussed among the Unofficial Members, it was agreed that this motion would be brought forward to-day by our colleague, Mr. BERNACCHI. I would like to say, as he has not mentioned it, that the device was agreed upon, not because an official member had just given up the chairmanship of this particular Select Committee but because it was thought to be the best procedure under the circumstances, even though Mr. BERNACCHI has not disclosed the fact that he is himself the new Chairman of the Select Committee concerned. I am most impressed with the disclosures made by Dr. Woo. I am particularly distressed that so many civil servants should be able to exercise the vote in Hong Kong. I do not think that they should want to eat their cake and still have it. First, they are subjected to much criticism in this Council. Secondly, they are given the vote to keep certain of the more vocal and articulate members out of the Council. (Laughter) I think this is the particular point the Select Committee ought to consider: the position of the civil servants in the electorate.

I support the motion.

DR. R. H. S. LEE:- Mr. Chairman, I rise to support my friend Mr. BERNACCHI's motion. In view of the Colony's phenomenal growth, its huge population and its ridiculously small number of eligible voters, the time is opportune to review the whole question of the electorate, which has remained static, as my friend has said, for some 10 years. When it has been shown that it can be manipulated (I will not use his language), it is in the public interest that it should be enlarged to such an extent, as Dr. Woo has pointed out, that no particular group could have the power to control the result of an election, and the electorate should be sufficiently large as to represent as wide a section of the public as possible, instead of the present less than 1% of the population.

In view of the Colony's special position, it is vitally important that the people so enfranchised must be educated and responsible; they must have their roots in Hong Kong and must know how to exercise their rights. Because of these considerations, Mr. Chairman, I feel far happier and more confident to refer the matter to the Standing Orders and Procedure Select Committee where all relevant and important information could be carefully examined and considered before recommendations of other categories of voters are made to this Council for further deliberation and approval.

MR. BERNACCHI:- May I exercise my right of reply? Just a few words. I agree with Mr. SALES that I am the new Chairman of the Standing Orders and Procedure Select Committee. It was he, however, that chose this Select Committee although it was a good choice from all

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Page 53 of 312 84 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL That their report be laid on the table for discussion at a future meeting of the Council." DR. P. F. Woo:- Mr. Chairman, I have much pleasure in seconding Mr. BERNACCHI's motion, and in doing so I wish to make a few observations. The Urban Council to-day, though having no legislative powers, is a highly responsible and important body of the Colony, for with the vast magnitude of its work and duty, it affects the greater part, if not the whole, of the community of Hong Kong. The Urban Council Elections should therefore be regarded as important events in the Colony. Yet, while the population here is nearly 4 million, the registered electorate amounts to less than 30,000. This is mainly because the categories of persons given the right to vote are too few. In fact, in the previous elections if a candidate won the support of only one category of people, the candidate would have a good chance of winning the election. In order to be fair to all concerned, the franchise should be extended to include, for example, nurses and certain categories of rate-payers. In this connexion, some people even argue that every individual should have the right to vote. This may seem democratic, but I think it is going too far, for just as a blind man would not be allowed in a democratic country to run freely in the street, until every individual knows what the right to vote is and means, I do not see how the right could be given to him. It has been pointed out that if all the categories of people at present with the right to vote registered, the electorate in the register would be doubled or even trebled. I agree that this is true and that registration of the electorate has not been satisfactory so far. To encourage more people in the categories to register, there should be more publicity given to the cause, and all the departments concerned should invite or remind their members to register. For instance, the Education Department should remind the teachers and education officers; the Auxiliary Medical Service and the Civil Aid Services should remind their own members, and so on. There is in addition a very large number of people included in the exempted list, for example, the undergraduates of the Hong Kong University, and members of the religious orders—it should be made known to them that they are eligible to vote if they register. Another category of people on the exempted list are 40,000 to 50,000 civil servants, ranging from clerks to administrative officers. Since members of the Jury are automatically included in the register, is there any reason why all civil servants entitled to vote should not be automatically included in the register too? I hope that members of the Standing Orders Select Committee, to whom this motion is to be referred, will bear these points in mind when this motion is being deliberated. HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 85 MR. A. de O. SALES:- Mr. Chairman, when this matter was discussed among the Unofficial Members, it was agreed that this motion would be brought forward to-day by our colleague, Mr. BERNACCHI. I would like to say, as he has not mentioned it, that the device was agreed upon, not because an official member had just given up the chairmanship of this particular Select Committee but because it was thought to be the best procedure under the circumstances, even though Mr. BERNACCHI has not disclosed the fact that he is himself the new Chairman of the Select Committee concerned. I am most impressed with the disclosures made by Dr. Woo. I am particularly distressed that so many civil servants should be able to exercise the vote in Hong Kong. I do not think that they should want to eat their cake and still have it. First, they are subjected to much criticism in this Council. Secondly, they are given the vote to keep certain of the more vocal and articulate members out of the Council. (Laughter) I think this is the particular point the Select Committee ought to consider: the position of the civil servants in the electorate. I support the motion. DR. R. H. S. LEE:- Mr. Chairman, I rise to support my friend Mr. BERNACCHI's motion. In view of the Colony's phenomenal growth, its huge population and its ridiculously small number of eligible voters, the time is opportune to review the whole question of the electorate, which has remained static, as my friend has said, for some 10 years. When it has been shown that it can be manipulated (I will not use his language), it is in the public interest that it should be enlarged to such an extent, as Dr. Woo has pointed out, that no particular group could have the power to control the result of an election, and the electorate should be sufficiently large as to represent as wide a section of the public as possible, instead of the present less than 1% of the population. In view of the Colony's special position, it is vitally important that the people so enfranchised must be educated and responsible; they must have their roots in Hong Kong and must know how to exercise their rights. Because of these considerations, Mr. Chairman, I feel far happier and more confident to refer the matter to the Standing Orders and Procedure Select Committee where all relevant and important information could be carefully examined and considered before recommendations of other categories of voters are made to this Council for further deliberation and approval. MR. BERNACCHI:- May I exercise my right of reply? Just a few words. I agree with Mr. SALES that I am the new Chairman of the Standing Orders and Procedure Select Committee. It was he, however, that chose this Select Committee although it was a good choice from all Page 53 of 312
Baseline (Original)
Page 53 of 312 84 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL That their report be laid on the table for discussion at a future meeting of the Council." DR. P. F. Woo:-Mr. Chairman, I have much pleasure in second- ing Mr. BERNACCHI's motion, and in doing so I wish to make a few observations. The Urban Council to-day, though having no legislative powers, is a highly responsible and important body of the Colony, for with the vast magnitude of its work and duty, it affects the greater part, if not the whole, of the community of Hong Kong. The Urban Council Elections should therefore be regarded as important events in the Colony. Yet, while the population here is nearly 4 million, the regis- tered electorate amounts to less than 30,000. This is mainly because the categories of persons given the right to vote are too few. In fact, in the previous elections if a candidate won the support of only one category of people, the candidate would have a good chance of winning the election. In order to be fair to all concerned, the franchise should be extended to include, for example, nurses and certain categories of rate-payers. In this connexion, some people even argue that every individual should have the right to vote. This may seem democratic, but I think it is going too far, for just as a blind man would not be allowed in a democratic country to run freely in the street, until every individual knows what the right to vote is and means, I do not see how the right could be given to him. It has been pointed out that if all the categories of people at present with the right to vote registered, the electorate in the register would be doubled or even trebled. I agree that this is true and that registration of the electorate has not been satisfactory so far. To en- courage more people in the categories to register, there should be more publicity given to the cause, and all the departments concerned should invite or remind their members to register. For instance, the Educa- tion Department should remind the teachers and education officers; the Auxiliary Medical Service and the Civil Aid Services should remind their own members, and so on. There is in addition a very large number of people included in the exempted list, for example, the undergraduates of the Hong Kong University, and members of the religious orders-it should be made known to them that they are eligible to vote if they register. Another category of people on the exempted list are 40,000 to 50,000 civil servants, ranging from clerks to administrative officers. Since members of the Jury are automatically included in the register, is there any reason why all civil servants en- titled to vote should not be automatically included in the register too? I hope that members of the Standing Orders Select Committee, to whom this motion is to be referred, will bear these points in mind when this motion is being deliberated. HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 85 MR. A. de O. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, when this matter was dis- cussed among the Unofficial Members, it was agreed that this motion would be brought forward to-day by our colleague, Mr. BERNACCHI. I would like to say, as he has not mentioned it, that the device was agreed upon, not because an official member had just given up the chairmanship of this particular Select Committee but because it was thought to be the best procedure under the circumstances, even though Mr. BERNACCHI has not disclosed the fact that he is himself the new Chairman of the Select Committee concerned. I am most impressed with the disclosures made by Dr. Woo. I am particularly distressed that so many civil servants should be able to exercise the vote in Hong Kong. I do not think that they should want to eat their cake and still have it. First, they are subjected to much criticism in this Council. Secondly, they are given the vote to keep certain of the more vocal and articulate members out of the Council. (Laughter) I think this is the particular point the Select Committee ought to consider: the position of the civil servants in the electorate. I support the motion. DR. R. H. S. LEE:-Mr. Chairman, I rise to support my friend Mr. BERNACCHI's motion. In view of the Colony's phenomenal growth, its huge population and its ridiculously small number of eligible voters, the time is opportune to review the whole question of the electorate, which has remained static, as my friend has said, for some 10 years. When it has been shown that it can be manipulated (I will not use his language), it is in the public interest that it should be enlarged to such an extent, as Dr. Woo has pointed out, that no particular group could have the power to control the result of an election, and the electorate should be sufficiently large as to represent as wide a section of the public as possible, instead of the present less than 1% of the popula- tion. In view of the Colony's special position, it is vitally important that the people so enfranchised must be educated and responsible; they must have their roots in Hong Kong and must know how to exercise their rights. Because of these considerations, Mr. Chairman, I feel far happier and more confident to refer the matter to the Standing Orders and Procedure Select Committee where all relevant and important in- formation could be carefully examined and considered before recom- mendations of other categories of voters are made to this Council for further deliberation and approval. MR. BERNACCHI:-May I exercise my right of reply? Just a few words. I agree with Mr. SALES that I am the new Chairman of the Standing Orders and Procedure Select Committee. It was he, however, that chose this Select Committee although it was a good choice from all
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Page 53 of 312

84

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

That their report be laid on the table for discussion at a future

meeting of the Council."

DR. P. F. Woo:-Mr. Chairman, I have much pleasure in second- ing Mr. BERNACCHI's motion, and in doing so I wish to make a few observations. The Urban Council to-day, though having no legislative powers, is a highly responsible and important body of the Colony, for with the vast magnitude of its work and duty, it affects the greater part, if not the whole, of the community of Hong Kong. The Urban Council Elections should therefore be regarded as important events in the Colony. Yet, while the population here is nearly 4 million, the regis- tered electorate amounts to less than 30,000. This is mainly because the categories of persons given the right to vote are too few. In fact, in the previous elections if a candidate won the support of only one category of people, the candidate would have a good chance of winning the election. In order to be fair to all concerned, the franchise should be extended to include, for example, nurses and certain categories of rate-payers. In this connexion, some people even argue that every individual should have the right to vote. This may seem democratic, but I think it is going too far, for just as a blind man would not be allowed in a democratic country to run freely in the street, until every individual knows what the right to vote is and means, I do not see how the right could be given to him.

It has been pointed out that if all the categories of people at present with the right to vote registered, the electorate in the register would be doubled or even trebled. I agree that this is true and that registration of the electorate has not been satisfactory so far. To en- courage more people in the categories to register, there should be more publicity given to the cause, and all the departments concerned should invite or remind their members to register. For instance, the Educa- tion Department should remind the teachers and education officers; the Auxiliary Medical Service and the Civil Aid Services should remind their own members, and so on. There is in addition a very large number of people included in the exempted list, for example, the undergraduates of the Hong Kong University, and members of the religious orders-it should be made known to them that they are eligible to vote if they register. Another category of people on the exempted list are 40,000 to 50,000 civil servants, ranging from clerks to administrative officers. Since members of the Jury are automatically included in the register, is there any reason why all civil servants en- titled to vote should not be automatically included in the register too? I hope that members of the Standing Orders Select Committee, to whom this motion is to be referred, will bear these points in mind when this motion is being deliberated.

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

85

MR. A. de O. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, when this matter was dis- cussed among the Unofficial Members, it was agreed that this motion would be brought forward to-day by our colleague, Mr. BERNACCHI. I would like to say, as he has not mentioned it, that the device was agreed upon, not because an official member had just given up the chairmanship of this particular Select Committee but because it was thought to be the best procedure under the circumstances, even though Mr. BERNACCHI has not disclosed the fact that he is himself the new Chairman of the Select Committee concerned. I am most impressed with the disclosures made by Dr. Woo. I am particularly distressed that so many civil servants should be able to exercise the vote in Hong Kong. I do not think that they should want to eat their cake and still have it. First, they are subjected to much criticism in this Council. Secondly, they are given the vote to keep certain of the more vocal and articulate members out of the Council. (Laughter) I think this is the particular point the Select Committee ought to consider: the position of the civil servants in the electorate.

I support the motion.

DR. R. H. S. LEE:-Mr. Chairman, I rise to support my friend Mr. BERNACCHI's motion. In view of the Colony's phenomenal growth, its huge population and its ridiculously small number of eligible voters, the time is opportune to review the whole question of the electorate, which has remained static, as my friend has said, for some 10 years. When it has been shown that it can be manipulated (I will not use his language), it is in the public interest that it should be enlarged to such an extent, as Dr. Woo has pointed out, that no particular group could have the power to control the result of an election, and the electorate should be sufficiently large as to represent as wide a section of the public as possible, instead of the present less than 1% of the popula- tion.

In view of the Colony's special position, it is vitally important that the people so enfranchised must be educated and responsible; they must have their roots in Hong Kong and must know how to exercise their rights. Because of these considerations, Mr. Chairman, I feel far happier and more confident to refer the matter to the Standing Orders and Procedure Select Committee where all relevant and important in- formation could be carefully examined and considered before recom- mendations of other categories of voters are made to this Council for further deliberation and approval.

MR. BERNACCHI:-May I exercise my right of reply? Just a few words. I agree with Mr. SALES that I am the new Chairman of the Standing Orders and Procedure Select Committee. It was he, however, that chose this Select Committee although it was a good choice from all

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