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it would appear to punish, not the Department, but the citizens of Hong Kong, in leaving the streets filthy by not providing sufficient cleansing staff. It is like a similar suggestion, equally reprehensible. and equally taken without consulting the citizens of Hong Kong, namely, the proposal to cut down the subsidy to subsidized schools with the hint that the schools in question can make up the difference by raising the school fees, I repeat, a most reprehensible move.

In conclusion, I would like to say, as I have said from the time that I first came on to this Council, that this Council should have its own funds, its own source of revenue, to finance the work that it does, as have most city councils throughout the world. Then the subject matter of the motion would not have arisen. The rates are essentially a city council's tax levy, and it is ridiculous for the rates to go into general revenue. In Hong Kong the rates are merely an addition to the Property Tax. Admittedly, the payments of rates in the United Kingdom for Urban Services include the local police, whereas here the Police do not come under the Urban Council, but the Traffic Police should, and anyhow the cost of maintaining the Resettlement Depart- ment more than evens out the cost of the Police. Then the Urban Council would itself be responsible for raising its own revenue, and I think that we will be able to run a very good Urban Services Depart- ment and a very good Resettlement Department and lower the rates at the same time.

With these words, Mr. Chairman, I support this motion.

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, I rise to support the motion moved by Mr. K. A. WATSON. In fact, when this motion was first discussed at the monthly unofficial caucus of the Unofficials (Laughter).

MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, as one of the two unofficial Chair- men of the tea party, may I say that Mr. CHEONG-LEEN attended his own meeting without our knowledge. (Laughter).

MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, Mr. SALES is pretty aware of what I mean by the term "caucus", which is an American term. Surely he has been chairman of many caucuses, having been President of the Junior Chamber International. I was going to say, Mr. Chair- man, that at this meeting of the Unofficials when this motion was dis- cussed, I do not think there were any Reform Club members present- some of them were busy campaigning.

MR. SALES: Mr. Chairman, on a point of order, I think that as the elections are now over, we should not refer to them in this Council except with a view to the removal of all those posters for the sake of urban amenities. (Laughter).

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MR. CHEONG-LEEN: Mr. Chairman, I think Mr. SALES is out of order. (Laughter).

MR. BERNACCHI:-Mr. Chairman, I think Mr. SALES is well in order. I have already given orders for our posters to be removed.

MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, may I also, through you, seek the same assurance from the Civic Association? (Laughter).

MR. CHEONG-LEEN: --Mr. Chairman, I think that we will have to co- operate with the Reform Club because many of our posters have been covered up. (Laughter). To get back to the motion

MR. SALES: In the interest of beautification, Sir? (Laughter). MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, in refusing to allow a repre- sentative of the Establishment Branch to appear before the Estimates Select Committee or the Standing Committee, the Colonial Secretariat is not only discourteous but has adopted a high-handed attitude to this Council. We all know that this Council is the only body which has elected members and this curt refusal by the Colonial Secretariat to send a representative to explain why it has arbitrarily cut the number of cleansing staff required is an indication of the disregard, and perhaps even of contempt, in which this Council is held by the Colonial Secretariat. This Colonel Blimp attitude, Mr. Chairman, on the part of the Secretariat is out of date, and it must change. The Urban Council after all is not an advisory body to the Director of the Urban Services Department, and if the Colonial Secretariat still thinks that it is, then it will have to revise its thinking. So the Civic Association Elected Mem- bers fully support this motion as moved by Mr. WATSON, and we trust that such a disagreeable situation will not occur again in future.

CHAIRMAN:-I think that much of the heat and indignation en- gendered in this matter has been due to misunderstanding. It has been the practice for some years, as far as the Department can ascertain, from 1947 at least, for this Council's Select Committee on Estimates to con- sider and advise on the staff to be requested for insertion in the annual Estimates of the Government, in order to carry out the functions of the Urban Services Department. It is not, of course, the responsibility of this Council to determine what proposals shall eventually be inserted in the Government Estimates and provided for from public funds; . . . .

MR. BERNACCHI :---On a point of order, I entirely disagree with you, Mr. Chairman.

CHAIRMAN: ---With respect, Sir, I will adhere to my statement. that is and remains the responsibility of the Government and the Legislature.