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goes far enough. I would have liked to have seen private domestic houses swept at public expense as well. (Laughter). There is another principle involved: whether it is right for the taxpayer to supply a service to private property which is in fact an obligation of the owner or the tenant himself. The extension of the responsibility on the part of a public administration to cleansing private property is a dangerous thing in itself, which cannot be treated in isolation but must be considered in its entirety before a motion of this nature can be accepted. There is, of course, the duty of the Urban Services Department to ensure that private property is kept in a hygienic condition and people are summonsed when they create a health risk or some such nuisance, but this is a different matter altogether. I hope I have explained my attitude and that of my Appointed colleagues. In the past we have never hesitated to support Mr. BERNACCHI and the other Elected Members whenever there was reason to do so, but in these circumstances we are sorry that we find ourselves unable to be on his side.
MR. BERNACCHI : ---I admire my friend for getting in a second speech under Standing Orders but I must exercise my right of reply. Although the question of cleaning the streets is uppermost in everyone's mind, the cost of my proposal is only the cost of 2,000 more labourers who would be involved in cleaning the communal parts of multi-storey buildings. I agree whole-heartedly that we must keep the streets clean and clear of rubbish and if we are to succeed in the task then we must endeavour to find a more appropriate and newer way of carrying out that task effectively and efficiently, but that does not alter one scrap of my motion.
CHAIRMAN:-The motion before the Council is as follows:-
For the better discharge of this Council's statutory duty, officers of the Urban Services Department should enter the communal parts of buildings for the purposes of sweeping and maintaining them in a clean and healthy condition. And for that purpose this Council urges Government to pass any necessary legislation.
The question was put.
There were 3 for, 15 against, and 4 abstentions.
The motion was defeated.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, for the record, may I say that while in sympathy with the Reform Club, the Civic Association's Elected Members have abstained from voting.
MR. SALES: The Civic Association is apparently sitting on the fence.
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
555
(2) Mr. B. A. BERNACCHI, CHAIRMAN OF THE HAWKERS SELECT COMMITTEE, moved the following motion:-
Resolved that Item 30 of the Eighth Schedule to the Public Health and Urban Services Ordinance, No. 30 of 1960, be cancelled with effect from 1st February, 1965.
He said :-Mr. Chairman, as Chairman of the Hawkers Select Committee of this Council, I rise to move the second motion standing in my name on the Order Paper.
Before the Public Health and Urban Services Ordinance was enacted in November 1960 it was considered necessary to make certain transitional provisions in that Ordinance to remove any doubts or anomalies in the interpretation of the related ordinances and by-laws which would be consolidated in, or repealed or amended by, that new Ordinance. These provisions were all listed in the Eighth Schedule to the Public Health and Urban Services Ordinance, and Item 30 of that Schedule was inserted specifically to safeguard the then existing rights of any licensed stall hawker.
I am happy to say that no anomalous situations over hawker licences have arisen since the Hawker By-laws, 1960 came into effect over four years ago and I congratulate a former drafting Select Committee of this Council, ably assisted as it was by Mr. BODILLY, the present acting Solicitor General. It is therefore now considered that these transitional provisions should be cancelled. Such a move would be in keeping with the need to keep our by-laws up-to-date and excise all extraneous matter from an ordinance which is under constant review by this Council.
Sir, I beg so to move.
THE DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE seconded.
Mr. A. de O. SALES:—Having studied the paper and not finding anything more in this by-law which can be properly excised, as there is nothing controversial in it, and largely because we do not understand what Mr. BERNACCHI has said, we, the Appointed Members, will support him. (Laughter).
CHAIRMAN:-The motion has been proposed and seconded.
The question was put.
The motion was carried.
DATE OF NEXT MEETING.
MR. BERNACCHI:-Mr. Chairman, I propose that the next meeting of this Council be held on the second Tuesday in March instead of the first Tuesday, because the first Tuesday is the day before Election Day.
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goes far enough. I would have liked to have seen private domestic houses swept at public expense as well. (Laughter). There is another principle involved: whether it is right for the taxpayer to supply a service to private property which is in fact an obligation of the owner or the tenant himself. The extension of the responsibility on the part of a public administration to cleansing private property is a dangerous thing in itself, which cannot be treated in isolation but must be con- sidered in its entirety before a motion of this nature can be accepted. There is, of course, the duty of the Urban Services Department to ensure that private property is kept in a hygienic condition and people are summonsed when they create a health risk or some such nuisance, but this is a different matter altogether. I hope I have explained my atti- tude and that of my Appointed colleagues. In the past we have never hesitated to support Mr. BERNACCHI and the other Elected Members whenever there was reason to do so, but in these circumstances we are sorry that we find ourselves unable to be on his side.
MR. BERNACCHI : ---I admire my friend for getting in a second speech under Standing Orders but I must exercise my right of reply. Although the question of cleaning the streets is uppermost in everyone's mind, the cost of my proposal is only the cost of 2,000 more labourers who would be involved in cleaning the communal parts of multi-storey buildings. I agree whole-heartedly that we must keep the streets clean and clear of rubbish and if we are to succeed in the task then we must endeavour to find a more appropriate and newer way of carrying out that task effective- ly and efficiently, but that does not alter one scrap of my motion.
CHAIRMAN:-The motion before the Council is as follows:-
For the better discharge of this Council's statutory duty, officers of the Urban Services Department should enter the com- munal parts of buildings for the purposes of sweeping and maintaining them in a clean and healthy condition. And for that purpose this Council urges Government to pass any necessary legislation.
The question was put.
There were 3 for, 15 against, and 4 abstentions.
The motion was defeated.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, for the record, may I say that while in sympathy with the Reform Club, the Civic Association's Elected Members have abstained from voting.
MR. SALES: The Civic Association is apparently sitting on the fence.
HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
555
(2) Mr. B. A. BERNACCHI, CHAIRMAN OF THE HAWKERS SELECT COM- MITTEE, moved the following motion:-
Resolved that Item 30 of the Eighth Schedule to the Public Health and Urban Services Ordinance, No. 30 of 1960, be cancelled with effect from 1st February, 1965.
He said :-Mr. Chairman, as Chairman of the Hawkers Select Com- mittee of this Council, I rise to move the second motion standing in my name on the Order Paper.
Before the Public Health and Urban Services Ordinance was enacted in November 1960 it was considered necessary to make certain transi- tional provisions in that Ordinance to remove any doubts or anomalies in the interpretation of the related ordinances and by-laws which would be consolidated in, or repealed or amended by, that new Ordinance. These provisions were all listed in the Eighth Schedule to the Public Health and Urban Services Ordinance, and Item 30 of that Schedule was inserted specifically to safeguard the then existing rights of any licensed stall hawker.
I am happy to say that no anomalous situations over hawker licences have arisen since the Hawker By-laws, 1960 came into effect over four years ago and I congratulate a former drafting Select Com- mittee of this Council, ably assisted as it was by Mr. BODILLY, the pres- ent acting Solicitor General. It is therefore now considered that these transitional provisions should be cancelled. Such a move would be in keeping with the need to keep our by-laws up-to-date and excise all extraneous matter from an ordinance which is under constant review by this Council.
Sir, I beg so to move.
THE DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE seconded.
Mr. A. de O. SALES:—Having studied the paper and not finding anything more in this by-law which can be properly excised, as there is nothing controversial in it, and largely because we do not understand what Mr. BERNACCHI has said, we, the Appointed Members, will support him. (Laughter).
CHAIRMAN:-The motion has been proposed and seconded.
The question was put.
The motion was carried.
DATE OF NEXT MEETING.
MR. BERNACCHI:-Mr. Chairman, I propose that the next meeting
of this Council be held on the second Tuesday in March instead of the first Tuesday, because the first Tuesday is the day before Election Day.
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