1964 — Page 126

Urban Council Proceedings 市政局議事錄 All AI Reviewed

Page 126 of 312

228

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

MR. SALES:-Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Sir, was the setting aside of Gin Drinkers Bay as a refuse dump ever referred to the Urban Council for an opinion?

CHAIRMAN:-I must say, Sir, that I do not know. The dump was set up under the Public Reclamation and Work (Gin Drinkers Bay) Ordinance of 1955, which validated the construction of a rubble mound joining Pillar Island to the mainland and authorized the reclamation of Gin Drinkers Bay by dumping rubbish.

MR. SALES:-Mr. Chairman, is it not Government's practice to consult the Urban Council in matters which affect the work of your Department?

CHAIRMAN:-It is, Sir, of course, when such matters are not inside the New Territories.

MR. SALES: In the event, Sir, why was the consent of the Council to the establishment of the refuse dump not obtained at all, as you are unable to give me a definitive reply on this question?

CHAIRMAN:-Sir, I will have to look into the matter, as I am not personally aware what the position was.

MR. SALES:-Mr. Chairman, would it not have been reasonable to expect of Government that before the use of Gin Drinkers Bay was made as a refuse dump, proper protective measures would have been taken to prevent just such an occurrence as that which we are now experiencing?

CHAIRMAN:-Sir, I do not think that it was ever envisaged that the unfortunate experiences which are occurring now, would occur. They have been caused by the fact that the dumping is now taking place in deep water.

MR. SALES:-Mr. Chairman, again, is it not reasonable to expect that a proper study of tide and current conditions would have been made first, so as to ensure that the adequate measures which might be required, would be taken before dumping?

CHAIRMAN:-Sir, I will have to look into the point in the light of what occurred in 1955.

MR. SALES-Sir, because of the dreadful conditions which have obtained in the harbour in the last two months, is it not logical for this Council to assume that no protective measures were ever taken by way of precaution?

CHAIRMAN: Sir, I must point out that several protective measures have been taken since the early part of this year and they have been

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

229

described in the papers which have already been put in the hands of Members.

MR. SALES: The keyword which I used was the adjective “adequate", and I would like a paper to be issued to this Council as to what adequate measures, if any, were taken before Gin Drinkers Bay was used for the dumping of refuse.

CHAIRMAN:-I will be glad to arrange for a paper to be prepared.

MR. SALES-Mr. Chairman, are you in a position to tell this Council how much it has cost the taxpayer per ton of rubbish fished out of the harbour in consequence of the failure to take adequate measures before the opening of Gin Drinkers Bay as a refuse dump?

DR. LEE:-I think in fairness to the Chairman, I should draw the attention of Members to the fact that long before this matter occurred, we, the Environmental Hygiene Select Committee, visited Gin Drinkers Bay and made proposals on how to improve matters, and I think it was only a question of finance from Government which has delayed the matter. We foresaw the condition that would come and develop: that refuse would be littered all over the harbour and also the beaches. I think that you, Sir, were well aware of the situation and you brought a high-powered engineer along to facilitate matters, but unfortunately the typhoon came before construction was finished.

MR. SALES-Mr. Chairman, would you like to answer my question?

CHAIRMAN:-I could not tell you offhand, Sir, the cost of cleaning the beaches, the area adjacent to Gin Drinkers Bay, and the harbour, of rubbish which has escaped from the dump, but I will endeavour, if you wish, to give you the figure later.

MR. SALES:-Arising from the explanation which my colleague Dr. LEE gave to this Council a moment ago, presumably in his capacity as Chairman of the Environmental Hygiene Select Committee, may I ask you, Sir, whether that visit was carried out after it was evident that the position was getting bad or before the dump was established at Gin Drinkers Bay?

CHAIRMAN:-The visit to which Dr. LEE referred took place long after the dump was established. Sir, I must disclaim on the part of Government any divine infallibility. In matters at Gin Drinkers Bay, I am sure that nobody in 1955 could have foreseen accurately what has happened now.

MR. SALES-Sir, may I say that as a taxpayer and as a citizen, I am greatly reassured that Government does not claim to be infallible;

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Page 126 of 312 228 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL MR. SALES:-Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Sir, was the setting aside of Gin Drinkers Bay as a refuse dump ever referred to the Urban Council for an opinion? CHAIRMAN:-I must say, Sir, that I do not know. The dump was set up under the Public Reclamation and Work (Gin Drinkers Bay) Ordinance of 1955, which validated the construction of a rubble mound joining Pillar Island to the mainland and authorized the reclamation of Gin Drinkers Bay by dumping rubbish. MR. SALES:-Mr. Chairman, is it not Government's practice to consult the Urban Council in matters which affect the work of your Department? CHAIRMAN:-It is, Sir, of course, when such matters are not inside the New Territories. MR. SALES: In the event, Sir, why was the consent of the Council to the establishment of the refuse dump not obtained at all, as you are unable to give me a definitive reply on this question? CHAIRMAN:-Sir, I will have to look into the matter, as I am not personally aware what the position was. MR. SALES:-Mr. Chairman, would it not have been reasonable to expect of Government that before the use of Gin Drinkers Bay was made as a refuse dump, proper protective measures would have been taken to prevent just such an occurrence as that which we are now experiencing? CHAIRMAN:-Sir, I do not think that it was ever envisaged that the unfortunate experiences which are occurring now, would occur. They have been caused by the fact that the dumping is now taking place in deep water. MR. SALES:-Mr. Chairman, again, is it not reasonable to expect that a proper study of tide and current conditions would have been made first, so as to ensure that the adequate measures which might be required, would be taken before dumping? CHAIRMAN:-Sir, I will have to look into the point in the light of what occurred in 1955. MR. SALES-Sir, because of the dreadful conditions which have obtained in the harbour in the last two months, is it not logical for this Council to assume that no protective measures were ever taken by way of precaution? CHAIRMAN: Sir, I must point out that several protective measures have been taken since the early part of this year and they have been HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 229 described in the papers which have already been put in the hands of Members. MR. SALES: The keyword which I used was the adjective “adequate", and I would like a paper to be issued to this Council as to what adequate measures, if any, were taken before Gin Drinkers Bay was used for the dumping of refuse. CHAIRMAN:-I will be glad to arrange for a paper to be prepared. MR. SALES-Mr. Chairman, are you in a position to tell this Council how much it has cost the taxpayer per ton of rubbish fished out of the harbour in consequence of the failure to take adequate measures before the opening of Gin Drinkers Bay as a refuse dump? DR. LEE:-I think in fairness to the Chairman, I should draw the attention of Members to the fact that long before this matter occurred, we, the Environmental Hygiene Select Committee, visited Gin Drinkers Bay and made proposals on how to improve matters, and I think it was only a question of finance from Government which has delayed the matter. We foresaw the condition that would come and develop: that refuse would be littered all over the harbour and also the beaches. I think that you, Sir, were well aware of the situation and you brought a high-powered engineer along to facilitate matters, but unfortunately the typhoon came before construction was finished. MR. SALES-Mr. Chairman, would you like to answer my question? CHAIRMAN:-I could not tell you offhand, Sir, the cost of cleaning the beaches, the area adjacent to Gin Drinkers Bay, and the harbour, of rubbish which has escaped from the dump, but I will endeavour, if you wish, to give you the figure later. MR. SALES:-Arising from the explanation which my colleague Dr. LEE gave to this Council a moment ago, presumably in his capacity as Chairman of the Environmental Hygiene Select Committee, may I ask you, Sir, whether that visit was carried out after it was evident that the position was getting bad or before the dump was established at Gin Drinkers Bay? CHAIRMAN:-The visit to which Dr. LEE referred took place long after the dump was established. Sir, I must disclaim on the part of Government any divine infallibility. In matters at Gin Drinkers Bay, I am sure that nobody in 1955 could have foreseen accurately what has happened now. MR. SALES-Sir, may I say that as a taxpayer and as a citizen, I am greatly reassured that Government does not claim to be infallible; Page 126 of 312
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312 Page 126 of 312 228 HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL MR. SALES:-Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Sir, was the setting aside of Gin Drinkers Bay as a refuse dump ever referred to the Urban Council for an opinion? CHAIRMAN:-I must say, Sir, that I do not know. The dump was set up under the Public Reclamation and Work (Gin Drinkers Bay) Ordinance of 1955, which validated the construction of a rubble mound joining Pillar Island to the mainland and authorized the reclamation of Gin Drinkers Bay by dumping rubbish. MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, is it not Government's practice to consult the Urban Council in matters which affect the work of your Department? CHAIRMAN: -It is, Sir, of course, when such matters are not inside the New Territories. MR. SALES: In the event, Sir, why was the consent of the Council to the establishment of the refuse dump not obtained at all, as you are unable to give me a definitive reply on this question? CHAIRMAN:-Sir, I will have to look into the matter, as I am not personally aware what the position was. MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, would it not have been reasonable to expect of Government that before the use of Gin Drinkers Bay was made as a refuse dump, proper protective measures would have been taken to prevent just such an occurrence as that which we are now experiencing? CHAIRMAN:-Sir, I do not think that it was ever envisaged that the unfortunate experiences which are occurring now, would occur. They have been caused by the fact that the dumping is now taking place in deep water. MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, again, is it not reasonable to expect that a proper study of tide and current conditions would have been made first, so as to ensure that the adequate measures which might be required, would be taken before dumping? CHAIRMAN: ---Sir, I will have to look into the point in the light of what occurred in 1955. MR. SALES-Sir, because of the dreadful conditions which have obtained in the harbour in the last two months, is it not logical for this Council to assume that no protective measures were ever taken by way of precaution? CHAIRMAN: Sir, I must point out that several protective measures have been taken since the early part of this year and they have been HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL 229 described in the papers which have already been put in the hands of Members. MR. SALES: The keyword which I used was the adjective “adequate", and I would like a paper to be issued to this Council as to what adequate measures, if any, were taken before Gin Drinkers Bay was used for the dumping of refuse. CHAIRMAN: --I will be glad to arrange for a paper to be prepared. MR. SALES-Mr. Chairman, are you in a position to tell this Council how much it has cost the taxpayer per ton of rubbish fished out of the harbour in consequence of the failure to take adequate measures before the opening of Gin Drinkers Bay as a refuse dump? DR. LEE: -I think in fairness to the Chairman, I should draw the attention of Members to the fact that long before this matter occurred, we, the Environmental Hygiene Select Committee, visited Gin Drinkers Bay and made proposals on how to improve matters, and I think it was only a question of finance from Government which has delayed the matter. We foresaw the condition that would come and develop: that refuse would be littered all over the harbour and also the beaches. I think that you, Sir, were well aware of the situation and you brought a high-powered engineer along to facilitate matters, but unfortunately the typhoon came before construction was finished. MR. SALES-Mr. Chairman, would you like to answer my question? CHAIRMAN:-I could not tell you offhand, Sir, the cost of cleaning the beaches, the area adjacent to Gin Drinkers Bay, and the harbour, of rubbish which has escaped from the dump, but I will endeavour, if you wish, to give you the figure later. MR. SALES: -Arising from the explanation which my colleague Dr. LEE gave to this Council a moment ago, presumably in his capacity as Chairman of the Environmental Hygiene Select Committee, may I ask you, Sir, whether that visit was carried out after it was evident that the position was getting bad or before the dump was established at Gin Drinkers Bay? CHAIRMAN:-The visit to which Dr. LEE referred took place long after the dump was established. Sir, I must disclaim on the part of Government any divine infallibility. In matters at Gin Drinkers Bay, I am sure that nobody in 1955 could have foreseen accurately what has happened now. MR. SALES-Sir, may I say that as a taxpayer and as a citizen, I am greatly reassured that Government does not claim to be infallible;
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Page 126 of 312

228

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

MR. SALES:-Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Sir, was the setting aside of Gin Drinkers Bay as a refuse dump ever referred to the Urban Council for an opinion?

CHAIRMAN:-I must say, Sir, that I do not know. The dump was set up under the Public Reclamation and Work (Gin Drinkers Bay) Ordinance of 1955, which validated the construction of a rubble mound joining Pillar Island to the mainland and authorized the reclamation of Gin Drinkers Bay by dumping rubbish.

MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, is it not Government's practice to consult the Urban Council in matters which affect the work of your Department?

CHAIRMAN: -It is, Sir, of course, when such matters are not inside the New Territories.

MR. SALES: In the event, Sir, why was the consent of the Council to the establishment of the refuse dump not obtained at all, as you are unable to give me a definitive reply on this question?

CHAIRMAN:-Sir, I will have to look into the matter, as I am not personally aware what the position was.

MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, would it not have been reasonable to expect of Government that before the use of Gin Drinkers Bay was made as a refuse dump, proper protective measures would have been taken to prevent just such an occurrence as that which we are now experiencing?

CHAIRMAN:-Sir, I do not think that it was ever envisaged that the unfortunate experiences which are occurring now, would occur. They have been caused by the fact that the dumping is now taking place in deep water.

MR. SALES: -Mr. Chairman, again, is it not reasonable to expect that a proper study of tide and current conditions would have been made first, so as to ensure that the adequate measures which might be required, would be taken before dumping?

CHAIRMAN: ---Sir, I will have to look into the point in the light of what occurred in 1955.

MR. SALES-Sir, because of the dreadful conditions which have obtained in the harbour in the last two months, is it not logical for this Council to assume that no protective measures were ever taken by way of precaution?

CHAIRMAN: Sir, I must point out that several protective measures have been taken since the early part of this year and they have been

HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL

229

described in the papers which have already been put in the hands of Members.

MR. SALES: The keyword which I used was the adjective “adequate", and I would like a paper to be issued to this Council as to what adequate measures, if any, were taken before Gin Drinkers Bay was used for the dumping of refuse.

CHAIRMAN: --I will be glad to arrange for a paper to be prepared.

MR. SALES-Mr. Chairman, are you in a position to tell this Council how much it has cost the taxpayer per ton of rubbish fished out of the harbour in consequence of the failure to take adequate measures before the opening of Gin Drinkers Bay as a refuse dump?

DR. LEE: -I think in fairness to the Chairman, I should draw the attention of Members to the fact that long before this matter occurred, we, the Environmental Hygiene Select Committee, visited Gin Drinkers Bay and made proposals on how to improve matters, and I think it was only a question of finance from Government which has delayed the matter. We foresaw the condition that would come and develop: that refuse would be littered all over the harbour and also the beaches. I think that you, Sir, were well aware of the situation and you brought a high-powered engineer along to facilitate matters, but unfortunately the typhoon came before construction was finished.

MR. SALES-Mr. Chairman, would you like to answer my question?

CHAIRMAN:-I could not tell you offhand, Sir, the cost of cleaning the beaches, the area adjacent to Gin Drinkers Bay, and the harbour, of rubbish which has escaped from the dump, but I will endeavour, if you wish, to give you the figure later.

MR. SALES: -Arising from the explanation which my colleague Dr. LEE gave to this Council a moment ago, presumably in his capacity as Chairman of the Environmental Hygiene Select Committee, may I ask you, Sir, whether that visit was carried out after it was evident that the position was getting bad or before the dump was established at Gin Drinkers Bay?

CHAIRMAN:-The visit to which Dr. LEE referred took place long after the dump was established. Sir, I must disclaim on the part of Government any divine infallibility. In matters at Gin Drinkers Bay, I am sure that nobody in 1955 could have foreseen accurately what has happened now.

MR. SALES-Sir, may I say that as a taxpayer and as a citizen, I am greatly reassured that Government does not claim to be infallible;

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