HONG KONG URBAN COUNCIL
CHAIRMAN:-I can say, Sir, that the Department is deeply influenced by, and grateful for, the expertise of Members of the various Select Committees, in applying itself to similar tasks which arise in the New Territories.
MR. BERNACCHI:-Indeed, Sir, what is the difference between the control of hawkers and markets and cleansing in the New Territories and control in the town areas?
CHAIRMAN:-In practice, Sir, it is largely a question of numbers, but I must point out that there are other factors involved.
MR. BERNACCHI:-And taking the matter further in regard to your paragraph 9, am I right, Sir, in thinking that these services enumerated in your paragraph 9 are all under the supervision of the Urban Council in the town areas?
CHAIRMAN: Yes, Sir.
MR. BERNACCHI:-Now in regard to your paragraph 11, what sort of advice is in fact obtained from the rural committees in the New Territories?
CHAIRMAN:-To give you specific instances, Sir, I would require notice of your question, but as I understand it, the advice is largely given in conjunction with the District Officers concerned, through meetings and discussions, and it is practical advice.
MR. BERNACCHI:-Perhaps, Sir, not to take up the time of this meeting, you can answer this particular supplementary more fully at a later date?
CHAIRMAN: -I would like to consider it. I imagine that, strictly speaking, this particular question may be out of order, since it concerns advice given by rural committees, but I would like to consider it and take it up with you later.
MR. BERNACCHI:-Then in paragraph 12 you say that the answer to my question 14 is 'No'; question 14 being "Does the Government consider the New Territories or any part of the New Territories urban areas?". I would enquire, Sir, not even indeed Tsuen Wan?
CHAIRMAN:-No, Sir, not within the definition of "urban areas".
MR. BERNACCHI:-Do you mean by that, not within the definition of "urban areas" in the Public Health and Urban Services Ordinance or not within the definition of "urban areas" in its common or every-day meaning?
CHAIRMAN: -I mean within the definition in the Ordinance.
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MR. BERNACCHI :--Now as to your paragraph 13, which is in answer to my question 15, in fact, Sir, the word "Urban" has been underlined, as it was in my original question. Is it your opinion that the Urban Services Department, with the word "Urban" underlined, is the correct department to run these services in the New Territories?
CHAIRMAN: Sir, you are asking for an expression of opinion which I regret that I cannot give to you under Standing Orders.
MR. BERNACCHI:-You have got me there. (Laughter). Your answer in paragraph 13 is that in 1960 Government decided that the Urban Services Department should assume responsibility for the New Territories. Was it the opinion of the Government then that the Urban Services Department was the correct authority to assume responsibility for the Urban Services in the New Territories?
CHAIRMAN: --I think that was clearly implied, Sir, when the decision was taken.
MR. BERNACCHI:-What then, Sir, is the difference between the Urban Services Department and the Urban Council in these matters in which the Urban Services Department has not taken over jurisdiction in the New Territories? What is the essential difference?
CHAIRMAN: Your question is not quite clear to me, Sir. Would you please repeat it?
MR. BERNACCHI: -Your answer to my previous supplementary was that it was clearly the opinion of Government that the Urban Services Department was the correct authority to take over these services in the New Territories. What is the essential, practical difference between the Urban Services Department and the Urban Council?
CHAIRMAN: --Sir, if I may say so, I think that in the urban areas the Department is fully the instrument of the Council, whereas by legislation it functions independently from the Council in the New Territories.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, I will ask only one supplementary. When I was a member of the Resettlement Policy Select Committee I used to ask questions fairly often on resettlement matters in the New Territories and answers were readily given by the Commissioner for Resettlement who happened to be Chairman of that Select Committee. As one of the most popular Chairman of the Urban Council we have ever had, would you be prepared to give your blessing to this practice being continued in the Resettlement Policy as well as in other Select Committees in regard to questions being asked by Members in Select Committee on matters in the New Territories?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-Mr. Chairman, may I have the last part of that question again? (Laughter).
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CHAIRMAN:-I can say, Sir, that the Department is deeply influenced by, and grateful for, the expertise of Members of the various Select Committees, in applying itself to similar tasks which arise in the New Territories.
MR. BERNACCHI:-Indeed, Sir, what is the difference between the control of hawkers and markets and cleansing in the New Territories and control in the town areas?
CHAIRMAN:-In practice, Sir, it is largely a question of numbers, but I must point out that there are other factors involved.
MR. BERNACCHI:-And taking the matter further in regard to your paragraph 9, am I right, Sir, in thinking that these services enumerated in your paragraph 9 are all under the supervision of the Urban Council in the town areas?
CHAIRMAN: Yes, Sir.
MR. BERNACCHI:-Now in regard to your paragraph 11, what sort of advice is in fact obtained from the rural committees in the New Territories?
CHAIRMAN:-To give you specific instances, Sir, I would require notice of your question, but as I understand it, the advice is largely given in conjunction with the District Officers concerned, through meet- ings and discussions, and it is practical advice.
MR. BERNACCHI:-Perhaps, Sir, not to take up the time of this meeting, you can answer this particular supplementary more fully at a later date?
CHAIRMAN: -I would like to consider it. I imagine that, strictly speaking, this particular question may be out of order, since it concerns advice given by rural committees, but I would like to consider it and take it up with you later.
MR. BERNACCHI:-Then in paragraph 12 you say that the answer to my question 14 is 'No'; question 14 being "Does the Government consider the New Territories or any part of the New Territories urban areas?". I would enquire, Sir, not even indeed Tsuen Wan?
CHAIRMAN:-No, Sir, not within the definition of "urban areas".
MR. BERNACCHI:-Do you mean by that, not within the definition of "urban areas" in the Public Health and Urban Services Ordinance or not within the definition of "urban areas" in its common or every-day meaning?
CHAIRMAN: -I mean within the definition in the Ordinance.
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MR. BERNACCHI :--Now as to your paragraph 13, which is in answer to my question 15, in fact, Sir, the word "Urban" has been underlined, as it was in my original question. Is it your opinion that the Urban Services Department, with the word "Urban" underlined, is the correct department to run these services in the New Territories?
CHAIRMAN: Sir, you are asking for an expression of opinion which I regret that I cannot give to you under Standing Orders.
MR. BERNACCHI:-You have got me there. (Laughter). Your answer in paragraph 13 is that in 1960 Government decided that the Urban Services Department should assume responsibility for the New Territories. Was it the opinion of the Government then that the Urban Services Department was the correct authority to assume responsibility for the Urban Services in the New Territories?
CHAIRMAN: --I think that was clearly implied, Sir, when the decision was taken.
MR. BERNACCHI:-What then, Sir, is the difference between the Urban Services Department and the Urban Council in these matters in which the Urban Services Department has not taken over jurisdiction in the New Territories? What is the essential difference?
CHAIRMAN: Your question is not quite clear to me, Sir. Would you please repeat it?
MR. BERNACCHI: -Your answer to my previous supplementary was that it was clearly the opinion of Government that the Urban Services Department was the correct authority to take over these services in the New Territories. What is the essential, practical difference between the Urban Services Department and the Urban Council?
CHAIRMAN: --Sir, if I may say so, I think that in the urban areas the Department is fully the instrument of the Council, whereas by legis- lation it functions independently from the Council in the New Territories.
MR. CHEONG-LEEN:-Mr. Chairman, I will ask only one supple- mentary. When I was a member of the Resettlement Policy Select Committee I used to ask questions fairly often on resettlement matters in the New Territories and answers were readily given by the Com- missioner for Resettlement who happened to be Chairman of that Select Committee. As one of the most popular Chairman of the Urban Council we have ever had, would you be prepared to give your blessing to this practice being continued in the Resettlement Policy as well as in other Select Committees in regard to questions being asked by Mem- bers in Select Committee on matters in the New Territories?
COMMISSIONER FOR RESETTLEMENT:-Mr. Chairman, may I have the last part of that question again? (Laughter).
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