THE HONGKONG GOVERNMENT GAZETTE, 16TH NOVEMBER, 1878. 539
expense which would be incurred in transferring the prisoners backwarks and forwards. There are many ways of enlarging the Gaol. One is to pull down the Police Courts. That would give a very large space indeed which could be made use of; and with regard to the Police Courts they might very well, I think, be placed in the building of the Supreme Court, provided accommodation could be found for the other departments which now occupy a part of the building. The convenience of the Police must of course be consulted to a certain extent, and it is an immense convenience to them to be so close to the Gaol as to be able to have prisoners transferred at once to the Gaol and back again. That, however, is a luxury very rarely enjoyed in other places. Indeed, I do not know any place where it exists;, and the distance is so short from the Supreme Court that I think if it is required to provide fresh Police Courts accommodation could very well be found there.
Honourable W. KESWICK.-If I may be permitted, I understand twelve months ago an item was inserted in the Esti- mates for the adaptation of certian portions of the Gaol to the separate system. I think the expression of opinion at that meeting was wholly, as it is at this meeting, in favour of the separate system, and that a trial should be made.
The ACTING COLONIAL SECRETARY.-With your Excellency's permission, I should like to inform the Council of a matter connected with the question of Gaol acommodation. In 1862 I was called upon the furnish Sir HERCULES ROBIN- SON with a report having reference to the improvement of the Police. One great difficulty was to obtain some suitable accommodation for quarters, and reflecting upon that particular subject it struck me that two great benefits could be secured. One was the appropriation of the area now occupied by the Police Barracks, but which at that time was intended to form an area for Gaol accommodation-that it should be given up to the Police, and that a new prison for long sentenced prisoners should be constructed at Stone Cutter's Island. That plan was ultimately carried out by Sir HERCULES ROBINSON, and although some mischances occurred, which I am sure by no possibility could occur again, arising in some measure from too great economy and having imperfect tools to work with--the scheme met with disadvantages which, as I said before, are not likely to occur again. This Gaol effected the particular object of keeping the criminal classes from Victoria in a place where they had no opportunity even of looking at that world which gave them pleasure. They were hardly worked, and I believe a revival of that system would tend to remove from us the very great difficulties that now beset us both as to the management and the removal of the criminal classes. The financial question is to some extent involved, but the financial question is not the chief question. The question is to obtain the power of reducing our criminal class, beside which mere cost is perfectly secondary. It is true the scheme was most unfortunate; but I think that had the plan been carried out, had its faults been removed, had its management been made perfect, Stone Cutter's Island Gaol would have been found most effective, if not thoroughly effective, and its object would have been attained by the reduction of the criminal class. I held that opinion in 1862 and I continue to hold it at the present time. I don't think I am at all in error in putting these conclusions before you. I believe that as a matter of cost, the cost of enlarging our present Gaol, accompanied, as it would be, with the certain discomfort of having in the midst of our population an establishment which carries with it undoubted evils, must form a great part of the question. The removal of the Gaol to a place like Stone Cutter's Island where its enlargement can at any time be effected, without any cost for land, recommends itself to our consideration. The cost of making extensive alterations in th limited area of the present Goal ronders it, I thin, Imost impracticable. I have looked at the various schemes proposea; some of them recommend themselves for their economy, but if economy is taken into consideration too much utility is always to be found wanting. I have told you the plain unvarnished tale as to Stone Cutter's Island Gaol. I think it may fairly come within the consideration of the Honourable Council, and I am prepared most firmly and conscientiously to advocate it as the one thing more likely to remove our present evils than any other that suggests itself to my mind I do this, gentlemen, because I think it is due to the gentleman, Sir HERCULES ROBINSON, who carried out that scheme, to say that the burden that was thrown upon him of having carried out so expensive, unnecessary, and almost foolish a system as building a Gaol over at Stone Cutter's Island should be shared by its initiator. I have never regretted that I suggested to Sir HERCULES ROBINSON the advisability of building a penal Gaol at Stone Cutter's Island, and I certainly advocate its adoption at the present moment. With regard to cost, I certainly think that with the employment of prisoners in preparing the material, utilising the fittings of the present Gaol, the sale of part of the area now occupied by the Gaol, and sundry other things which would practically recommend themselves to the Officers who would have to carry out the work, regarding economy as a necessary factor, undoubtedly the cost would be far less than enlarging the Goal by purchasing additional property, than making a temporary shift and building on a confined area something which would be wanting in all the requirements of a Gaol. If it is considered that the removal of the Gaol to Stone Cutter's Island is a scheme that cannot recommend itselt to the Council, I would say, as the Honourable Member who last spoke (the Acting Chief Justice) has said, the removal of the Magistracy, the removal of the Superintendent's residence, and the removal of the Gaol Office would give room for solitary cells, and I think of the two or three plans put before the Council, that of itself would be best that could be adopted. The Magistracy need not be taken to the Supreme Court House, although the Offices there would be well adapted for it. But a new Magistracy could be built at small expense on the piece of ground now belonging to the Government near the entrance to the Police Station. The subject of deportation is one also that invites remarks. I think if it can be shown that 50 per cent. of our deportees absolutely remain away, then we accomplish one material and great gain in sending them away to their own country. Of course it must be very well understood that the generous principles of the British Government would not send a man away even to his own country from the place of his adoption unless it was shown that he came within the meaning of our Ordinance, that he would be dangerous to the peace and good order of the Colony. Men are not deported for one offence, but only when it is found they become habitual thieves, and then I don't think there can be the slightest claim on their part that they have been treated with great hardship or in any way contrary
to British law.
HIS EXCELLENCY.-Perhaps, gentlemen, it would be convenjent for us if we could resume this discussion on Thursday. We could take the Estimates the following week, and we might go into this question if convenient on Thursday.
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Honourable W. KESWICK.-With what object are we to come to a decision? If we decide there shall be a new Gaol, is it that it shall appear immediately on the Estimates ?
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