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difficulties would arise in 1997, and that is why great efforts were made to try to find routes through the problems when making arrangements with China and when making the arrangements as regards immigra- tion and passport problems. We agonised over those
matters.
The British Nationality (Hong Kong) Act was the result. I am glad that the noble Lord, Lord Wilson, said that he thought that it would be wrong—and I paraphrase--to try to tinker about with the provisions made in that Act. A number of noble Lords are anxious about that matter. In many ways, they have tried to revisit the Act and say that we should change the numbers. It has been laid down in statute that the numbers to be allowed into the country will be 50,000. At the time that the figure was arrived at, we tried to strike the right balance between maintaining confidence in Hong Kong and limiting potential immigration into the United Kingdom. It was a controversial figure and some people may say that it is the wrong figure. But the problems of immigration cannot be under-estimated. All countries must place restrictions on the numbers of immigrants coming not merely from one country but from all countries. Your Lordships will know well the problems which can arise in that regard. That was the reason why the British Nationality (Hong Kong) Act set the figure at 50,000 applications. It is also right to say that we cannot alter that figure without altering the Act and, of course, that means producing more primary legislation.
My noble friend Lord Glenarthur has great knowledge on the subject. I am most grateful for what he said. I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Seear, who said that he made a most courageous speech. He said that when he was in this position he gave certain commitments, but now he finds that times have changed and that he, for one, would like to see the commitments adjusted. Of course, it is fine for him to say that from the Back-Benches, although it is not so easy for someone else who happens to be responsible from this Dispatch Box. We are limited to those numbers and have tried to address the problem by allocating them to certain categories. That in itself was quite complicated, but it was done.
The noble Lord, Lord Wyatt, chivied me a little by asking why all such matters were not put in the original Act. He also chivied me the other day by suggesting that I had said that they had been put in an order so as to make them more flexible. That is precisely what the orders are: they are an indication of the flexibility that we are trying to use to show that, where certain classes of people have been undersub- scribed in their applications, those undersubscribed places can be reallocated to those that have been oversubscribed. That is the point of one of the orders that is before the House this evening.
I know that noble Lords are all concerned about the matter. I also share that concern. I can only hope that we can avoid calling a Division; but of course, it is up to your Lordships to decide what to do. However, I think that it would be a pity if it were to appear that there is some division of concern within the House on the matter. We are all concerned to try to reach the right solution.
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I am glad to see that the noble Lord, Lord Shackleton, has now returned to his place. Perhaps I may reiterate what I said earlier when he had momentarily absented himself from the Chamber. I said that we were glad that he came to the House to make a speech on his birthday. I also said that although he may have found it to be no birthday treat, it was indeed a treat for us. However, the noble Lord was concerned about the services. The whole purpose of the order is to try to meet the point that he made; namely, to reallocate those places of underdemand to those places which have shown greater demand.
The noble Lord, Lord McIntosh, said that the issues of principle are still at stake. I can only say that they were decided as such at the time of the British Nationality (Hong Kong) Act. That is how we try to deal with those provisions. The noble Lord said that people were expected to apply up to the 30th June 1997 and that administrative convenience had been put above the interests of the people of Hong Kong. That is not in fact true. Of course, people have the right to apply up to the 30th June but the practical effect is that if vast numbers apply on 1st June or on 28th June they simply cannot be processed in time. That is why we have introduced the second order; to try and phase in the applications in the full knowledge that everyone who is entitled to it will be able to obtain citizenship.
I
Many speakers referred to Macao, among them ! | Macan
believe were the noble Lords, Lord McIntosh and Lord Chalfont and my noble friend Lord Willoughby De Broke. In fact, the matter was mentioned only recently during Question Time. It is not the case that Portugal is granting citizenship to all residents of Macao. People from Hong Kong cannot simply travel and acquire Portuguese citizenship. Residence in Macao does not lead automatically to acquisition of Portuguese citizenship. Naturalisation requires six years' residence with good character, economic independence and the ability to speak Portuguese. It is also discretionary and given sparingly on a case-by-case basis. It is only children who are born in Macao to Portuguese citizens who automatically acquire Portuguese citizenship. It is only Portuguese nationals (there are about 100,000 of them in Macao) who have the right of abode in Portugal and who are able, thereby, to exercise the European Community treaties' rights and travel throughout the Community.
The arguments that have been of most concern to your Lordships this evening are those about the non-ethnic Chinese minorities. They tend to be mostly people of Indian or Pakistani origin. The arguments fall into about four categories: first, that those people will not have a proper nationality and passport; secondly, that they will not have the right of abode in Hong Kong; thirdly, that they will be stateless; and, fourthly, that they will not be able to transmit their nationality to future generations.
Perhaps I may take those arguments in turn. I shall start first with the question of proper nationality and passport. It has been said that after 1997 those people will not have proper nationalities or proper passports. That refers to what they see as the inferior status of a British national (overseas) or British overseas citizen
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