British Nationality Order 1993
[LORD SHACKLETON]
[LORDS]
him. Nonetheless, I feel badly about the services. People who have loyally served the Crown may find themselves in grievous difficulties in the future.
8.10 p.m.
Baroness Seear: My Lords, it is normal for those who wind up a debate to devote their time to answering the criticisms of the Motion before your Lordships which have been made during the debate. The difficulty for me is that there have been no criticisms. Every speaker without exception has supported the Motion tabled by my noble friend Lord Bonham-Carter.
In his opening speech, the noble Earl, Lord Ferrers, indicated that there are objections based on the fact that it is said that there is nothing special about the position of the non-Chinese ethnic minorities in Hong Kong. That argument has been completely disposed of in the course of the debate. There is no doubt that their position is different and is special.
It has also been said—and the noble Earl has said this on previous occasions-that there is something sacrosanct about the number of people who it was agreed should be allowed to have passports to come to this country from Hong Kong. At the time many of us thought that to fix such a number was a mistake because if those people had the right to come here, a great many of them, secure in the knowledge that they had a place to which they could retreat if necessary, would continue to stay in Hong Kong. Indeed, it was suggested that bearing in mind the rate at which the economy in East Asia is progressing at present, those people would be sensible to remain there. I have no doubt that a great many of the people about whom we are speaking today would, if they were secure in the knowledge that they could come here if events turned hostile towards them, prefer to stay and continue their excellent and successful careers in Hong Kong.
It has also been suggested that in 1986 we gave those people a kind of guarantee that if things became very difficult, we should look favourably upon them when considering their cases. I believe that the noble Lord, Lord Glenarthur, spoke with considerable honour and courage because it was he who addressed us and informed us about that in 1986. He has said that although the statement was made in good faith at the time at which it was made, times have changed and we have since seen the difficulties which have arisen. We have seen the events of Tiananmen Square and we know the difficulties that those people may encounter. We know that that guarantee given then is not adequate now.
Therefore, I do not quite know what I am supposed to be doing in winding up this debate. In order to say something, I have tried to anticipate what the noble Earl will say. That is all that I have to deal with by way of opposition.
I should like to re-emphasise briefly what has already been said. The particular needs of that special group are different from those of anybody else. There is complete support from the Legislative Council in Hong Kong, and there is no division about this matter. The people of Hong Kong are in very
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dangerous position and the documents which they have been offered give them no right of abode. Should anybody want a travel document which will not allow him to put down his baggage and settle in this country? The non-Chinese ethnic minorities in Hong Kong are threatened with statelessness, and what they are offered is no guarantee against that. That is a position which no one would willingly contemplate.
I am sure that your Lordships' House will agree with me as to how convincing was the presentation of the noble Baroness, Lady Dunn. The mere fact that she has undertaken that appalling journey (I did it once) all the way from Hong Kong in order to speak to your Lordships' House this evening, and to speak with such eloquence and so convincingly must carry great weight with your Lordships.
I was privileged to meet some of the people who came here representing those minorities. I cannot imagine that they will ever be a burden upon the Exchequer of this country. They struck me as being the kind of people who, after being here for five years, will be buying up most of us, so able and competent are they.
I have never supported the party opposite, but I recognise that there is a tradition in the Conservative Party, if sometimes muted, which recognises honour and moral obligations. Let it do so this evening.
8.15 p.m.
Earl Ferrers: My Lords, there was a nice sting in that tail of the noble Baroness, Lady Seear, which I could certainly have done without. But I know that she says those things rather tongue-in-cheek.
This has been a remarkable debate. It is with a considerable amount of humility that I rise to try to answer some of the points which have been made by your Lordships. We have heard from two ex- Governors of Hong Kong. We have heard from the noble Baroness, Lady Dunn, who is the senior member of the Hong Kong Legislative Council. She said that she has flown here from Hong Kong especially to participate in this debate. We have heard from a previous incumbent of St. John's Cathedral. That is an extremely important position but not quite as elevated as that of the noble Baroness, Lady Dunn. We have heard from a “birthday boy” who regrettably appears to be no longer in his place. Perhaps he has gone to celebrate his birthday. The noble Lord, Lord Shackleton, said that it was no birthday treat for him to address your Lordships; but it was certainly a birthday treat for us to hear from him today. We have heard from a previous Minister of State at the Home Office, my noble friend Lord Glenarthur, who was very much involved with this issue. Therefore, it is with a considerable degree of humility that I try to address some of the questions that have been raised.
The speech of the noble Baroness, Lady Dunn, was extremely impressive. She brought with her her total knowledge of Hong Kong and all the problems which exist there. Of course there are problems and anxieties; and she knows about them. She was able to tell the House about them, and I am grateful for that. Hong Kong is a special problem and it has always been recognised as such. We always knew that these
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