TNAG-1417-FCO40-1900-Hong-Kong-Parliamentary-Sub-Committee-on-Race-Relations-and--1985 — Page 33

THE HOME AFFAIRS SUB-COMMITTEE ON RACE RELATIONS AND IMMIGRATION 143

4 February 1985]

[Mr Hanley Contd.]

MR R LUCE, MP, MR A C Galsworthy, DR D C WILSON and MR D Carter

Territory citizens of Hong Kong-might themselves feel resentful if refugees were allowed to resettle in this country or, indeed, in other countries of the West. I do not believe (though I may be proved to be wrong) that this would be a major source of dissension or disagreement with us. I be- lieve that they look upon the British Gov- ernment as carrying the ultimate responsi- bility for the Vietnamese refugees. I believe that the British Dependent Territories citi- zens know their own position, understand it as a result of the agreement and know that they have no right of abode in this country, but do have it in Hong Kong. Therefore, I think they look on this problem as in a slightly different context. I do not believe (though I cannot be absolutely certain) that there would be a deep cause of resentment on this.

227. When we visited the camps, I first had to get over the horror of the principle of the closed camps. I can understand why they were set up, but I must admit that had it been by decision, I am certain that I would not have been part of it. Neverthe- less, once I had got over that, I found the conditions within the camps not as horrify- ing as I expected. I found them clean, I found the constructive use of lessons and teaching time, in English, French and other matters, very helpful indeed. I found the food and the medical services quite excel- lent, within the pressures of the camps. However, I found the living conditions -three bunks high, the hardboard jungle, the living and sleeping accommodation- totally unacceptable in what I think is meant to be a civilised colony under our responsibility. In the short term, if there seems to be such difficulty in settling these people elsewhere, is there no way of in- creasing the size of the closed camps, so that at least the sleeping accommodation can be more acceptable to the needs of the fami- lies? If the number coming in has dropped down drammatically, and yet there are births occurring within the camps, can we not have an expansion of the floor area of the camps, so that some element of privacy, or at least less of the communal living that goes on at the moment, occurs in the future? Would that not be a humane investment?

(Mr Luce.) May I first of all respond by saying that I understand completely your feelings about the policy of closed camps and, indeed, the policy of humane deter- rent. All I would ask you to do is to consider what the alternative might have been. That

[Continued

seems to me the crux of the problem: that if we had not introduced this particular pol- icy, we might today have had a far more difficult humane problem to deal with. I think that that is the way in which we have to consider it. That is not to say that I or the Secretary of State accept this as being either desirable or satisfactory. On the contrary, we do not. I am very grateful for the comments that you have made and, indeed, Mr Hunt has made, about notwithstanding the fact that they are closed camps, that we are doing our best in terms of the condi- tions. I believe that the Hong Kong Gov- ernment are doing their utmost, in very, very difficult conditions, to try to ease the situation. The British Refugee Council have put a number of ideas to us as a Govern- ment, and to me, in the last few months. We have tried to meet as many of their points as .we possibly can, to help to improve condi- tions. As far as your specific point is concerned, the problem of crowded condi- tions (and I could not agree with you more, they are very crowded) will be eased, or would be eased, to the extent that the numbers of refugees there are reduced. Whether or not it is possible for us to improve their crowded conditions I will certainly pursue further with the Governor who constantly has his eye on this problem and is constantly looking for ways of improving it. As I say, the only way we can ease it is to get the numbers down and eventually to relocate.

228. I would still submit that in the short term, of course, one could ease the problem of three stackings of living accom- modation into, shall we say, three times the size; and you could have living accommo- dation one deep, rather than three deep.

(Mr Luce.) I will have this looked at. I will ask the Hong Kong Government to look at this.

229. I am grateful. I was actually struck by the fact that the area around Chi Ma Wan is virtually deserted. I know it is a difficult spot geographically, but Lan Tao Lantan Island is one of the most underdeveloped and largest of the islands there. I would have thought that there was plenty of room, as it were. However, again that is only in the short term, I would like to add. Lastly, I do think that it is worth putting on record the fact that Britain has absorbed 19,000 Viet- names already, and is still annually receiv- ing 200 boat rescue cases and about 800 under the Orderly Departure Programme. I