TNAG-1417-FCO40-1900-Hong-Kong-Parliamentary-Sub-Committee-on-Race-Relations-and--1985 — Page 32

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4 February 1985]

[Mr Hanley Contd.]

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE

MR R LUCE, MP, MR A C GALSWORTHY, DR D C WILSON and MR D Carter

the original South Vietnam went out as genuine refugees; others, perhaps from the original North Vietnam, went out as eco- nomic refugees. These are deeper and more difficult issues. I, for my part, think that it is really part of a much wider problem to which we have to address ourselves: the wider problem of dealing with these refu- gees. That leads me on to your specific point, which I think was whether or not I believe that they could be repatriated. All I can say is that what I think it is important to look at are clear assurances that if they were to return to Vietnam, they would be treated humanely. I do believe that this is important. I do believe that we have not got to the stage where we have those assurances. We have no objection

on the contrary-to a policy of voluntary repatriation (something we have discussed with the UNHCR), but it is not something that we believe is likely to happen on a large scale. So I believe that we need to be satisfied on these conditions, before that particular policy could be pursued.

225. Therefore, I take it, Mr Luce, that that is not really an option available at this moment? Though I believe there are some who have voluntarily repatriated them- selves (very few, but there have been some), then the options are either absorption within some other country, absorption within Hong Kong, or continuing as they are. Can I suggest that absorption within what is still a rapidly growing economy -that of Hong Kong-might be preferable to uprooting them and taking them else- where, particularly since, when we visited Hong Kong, I was very much struck by the rapid new building programme in so many parts of the New Territories? In both east and west, they take great pride in the new housing estates that are being built. We were told that one of the reasons for this was to try to take the resident Kowloon population, particularly in the Mark 1 flats north of Kai Tak, to better housing. Is there not a programme in Hong Kong, therefore, to resettle the residents of the less acceptable flats, then maybe those flats, instead of being condemned, might be used as a first haven of refuge after the closed camp? Can I add that I found the conditions in the Mark 1 flats about as horrendous as any conditions that I have seen in housing in a relatively free society. Funnily enough, I found the conditions in those Mark 1 flats almost as bad as the conditions in the camps, although, of course, personal liberty is very much curtailed in the camps.

[Continued

(Mr Luce.) If I may start again from the point of view of Hong Kong (which I do believe is very important for us to consider), as you may know, Hong Kong has a population of 5.3 million now. It is very densely populated. I am telling you things that you are very familiar with. They have aready, as we have discussed, absorbed no less than 14,000 displaced persons who are Vietnamese refugees. I believe that that was a very generous gesture on their part, when you consider their problems. If you then add, to my mind, a singularly important point-and that is that the Hong Kong Government have followed a policy of returning to China illegal immigrants in very large numbers-I have to say that we are looking at humane problems. Some- times these immigrants are related to people who live in Hong Kong. It is a very painful process which the Hong Kong Government has to do, in order to preserve stability in Hong Kong itself. Since 1980 no less than 230,000 people have been repatriated back into China. So against that background, and against the background that Hong Kong has given shelter to no less than 100,000 refugees, I do not believe it can be right to ask for Hong Kong to take on a greater share of the burden. I think it is only proper that I should say that.

226. If that is the case (and I agree that we have heard many say that, both in Hong Kong and here in evidence), then do you not also agree that there is resentment, or could be resentment, amongst the Hong Kong population, if the Vietnamese are settled abroad, at a time when settlement is harder for them than at any time in their history, and with pressures coming in into 1997, for whatever rational or irrational reasons, whether the future is within Hong Kong or without? Do you believe that there will be a greater sign of resentment amongst them if, let us say, all of the Vietnamese refugees in Hong Kong were settled abroad in the near future?

(Mr Luce.) Mr Hanley, I certainly see the force of that question and that argument. Nevertheless, I come to the view that a much greater cause of resentment would be a policy of saying, "You in Hong Kong must take a greater number of refugees than you've already taken”, very largely for the reasons that I have already given, particu- larly in regard to the policy on China and illegal immigrants. I will then go on to take your other point that people--perhaps par- ticularly those who are British Dependent