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Mr. Kingston.] I should like to mention, Mr. Chamberlain, why the poll tax was abandoned. That was in 1888. We communicated with the Imperial Government for the purpose of ascertaining whether they would prefer a heavy poll tax or a strong tonnage limitation, and we were officially advised that their preference was in the shape of the abolition of the poll tax and the adoption of a tonnage limitation. I confess that I do think that Australian sentiment has arrived at this stage that as regards those descrip- tions of coloured labour which are not regarded as desirable no tonnage limitation properly meets the case, but an absolute prohibition would be infinitely preferred.

Sir John Forrest.] I would like to say, sir, that it is not a matter that we can express personal opinions about. There is not one of us I believe, I think I may speak for all of us, I certainly speak for myself, there is not one of us could hold his position in these Colonies if he advocated coloured labour coming into the Colony unrestricted.

The Secretary of State.] That is admitted absolutely on all sides.

Sir Hugh Nelson.] No one would dream of doing that.

The Secretary of State.] No one would dream of doing that. I can give full weight to all Mr. Reid has said so well and so forcibly. It has come to a question of method and there I am afraid I must leave it for the present.

Mr. Reid.] I gather from you, Mr. Chamberlain, that even at present the serious difficulty in the way is as to British subjects.

The Secretary of State.] Yes, entirely.

Mr. Reid.] I do not wish to commit you in any way because it is the Cabinet that has to decide the matter, but as far as your own impression goes, as it stands at present there is no difficulty about the coloured races not British subjects? I do not wish to commit you in any way.

The Secretary of State.] I do not think we can raise any objection to any Australian legislation which the Colonies of Australia are making in regard to that phase of the subject.

Mr. Reid.] I am sure you would like us clearly to understand the point of the difficulty.

The Secretary of State.] My argument is entirely directed to British subjects.

Mr. Kingston.] May I add on the question of unanimity, that this matter was considered at a conference at Sydney within the last 18 months, when all the Colonies except New Zealand and Western Australia were specially re- presented, including Tasmania and Queensland. It was then unanimously resolved that the provisions of the Chinese Immigration Restriction Acts should be extended to all coloured races, with a temporary reservation by Queeneland only in favour of the Kanaka traffic. The legislation which is now being adopted is merely carrying out that unanimous resolution with some modifications for the purpose of meeting objections to any unnecessary stringency.

Sir E. N. C. Braddon.] It must be remembered that I, to carry out that resolution, brought in my Immigration Restriction Bill on the lines of the Chinese Restriction Act of excluding British subjects from the operations of the Act. British subjects were excluded from the operation of the Chinese Act, so also are they excluded from the operation of the Coloured Aliens

Bill.

Mr. Reid.] We expressly agreed in that conference that that exemption should not continue. However, that is ancient history.

Sir E. N. C. Braddon.] We agreed that we would bring our legislation, with regard to coloured aliens, into line with our Chinese Restriction Act.

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Mr. Reid. That is ancient history, because the Government might adopt a different course in the laws that it might pass. It is quite open to Govern- ment later on to take a different course. I do not mention that.

The Secretary of State.] That is the difference between a resolution of a Conference of Premiers and a resolution of a Federal Council.

Mr. Reid.] Exactly.

The Secretary of State.] You cannot go behind the resolution of a Federal Council, but the Premiers of the different Colonies speaking at a Conference must reserve the rights of their legislatures.

Sir Hugh Nelson.] Queensland was not there.

Mr. Reid.] May I put one other question, as I should just like to clear up the matter as much as we can? Now let us suppose a measure of this kind. The New South Wales measure as it stands with the clause I read as to coloured races not Her Majesty's subjects.

The Secretary of State.] Yes.

Mr. Reid.] And a clause as to coloured persons, Her Majesty's subjects, to this effect, that power should be given to the Governor in Council at any time to exclude any person or class of person; that is to say, they would not be excluded in the Act at all.

The Secretary of State.] On certain grounds.

Mr Reid.] Well, of course, it would be an executive power; it would be exercised with discretion; I only want to know what your attitude, provisionally, of course, is on the matter your impression.

Let us

The Secretary of State.] I will express my personal opinion. Mr. Reid.] Not a considered opinion, merely an impression. take a Bill of that kind. Do you think that will not meet very much your difficulty? Then the Bill would stand in this form, that there would be no necessary exclusion of any British subject; the Act should not exclude any single British subject, coloured person, but the power would vest in the executive. Well, of course, we would presume that in all such cases the executive would only use that power to meet a recognised local state of things with which the executive Government would first have to deal. I do not at all say that I would like that, but I am dealing with difficulties as they present themselves to me. It seems to me that a provision of that sort would entirely remove your objection, because it would not affect the Act; it would not affect a single British subject; it would contain a power which would be a power almost of common law. I think it has been decided by the Privy Council that the Government has an inherent right in cases of emergency as to the admission of persons.

Sir George Turner.] Before we leave that, suppose you will not go the length we desire, would it be possible to apply the tonnage limitation, and also require the certificate of some responsible person before the persons were allowed to leave India for the purpose?

The Secretary of State.] I think that might be considered.

Sir George Turner.] Something like that might meet our difficulties, so that we would not only limit the number that would come to us, but we would know that those who came to us were persons who had been approved of by responsible persons, and we could hold the home authorities liable if they did

not.

Mr. Kingston.] Under the existing Act we have power to declare exemptions. Would an executive declaration of an exemption in favour of British subjects who by compliance with some educational examination, satisfied the authorities that they were not proper subjects for exclusion-would that meet the difficulty?

The Secretary of State.] But you would not put that into the Bill?

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