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after investigating the matter thoroughly were prepared to come forward with some proposal by which while we were giving preference to the mother- land the mother-land would be able to give us something in exchange for that, you know very well what our people would Mr. Reid.] Something more you mean. deal.

say.

We get something and a good

Sir George Turner.] We only get what other nations get, the same as you give to England, what you give to all foreign nations.

Mr. Reid. I do not think it is entirely a question of trade. You must sur- vey the whole relations between us and the British Empire, and whilst we are not able to share the partnership in the Imperial navy, there are some slight ways in which we can, without injuring our own people at all, show some recognition of the enormous benefits which we derive from our connection with the British Empire.

Sir George Turner.] It will not do for us to bring forward a proposal and fail; it will only injure the cause.

Mr. Reid.] Can we not discuss it among our colleagues.

Mr. Kingston.] We are discussing it practically in the dark.

Sir George Turner.] Are you going to get anything in return? our col- leagues are sure to ask that.

The Secretary of State.] I do not make the least complaint. You are perfectly justified in treating all relations between the Colonies and this country on that footing, but all I say is that if we treated our relations with you on the same footing there would be a very marked change to-morrow. Mr. Kingston.] So far as the tariff is concerned we get no advantage. Sir John Forrest.] We understand I think that this preference is to be given as a result of Great Britain abrogating her treaties with Germany.

The Secretary of State.] I do not think that has anything to do with it really.

Sir E. N. C. Braddon.] Then we understand that preference is to be given as a return for Great Britain abrogating her treaties with Belgium and Germany.

The Secretary of State.] What I said was that of course I was desirous of hearing your views upon it, and I felt that the argument in favour of the denunciation of the treaties would, of course, be strengthened by each fresh Colony that offered this preference, or a preference of any kind when the treaties were denounced. As it is, if we are to treat it as a matter of profit and loss, we have only one offer before us, that is, the offer of Canada, and of course it will be argued by some people, at any rate, that it is not worth our while to denounce the Belgian and German treaties merely for the purpose of receiving what advantage it would be to us from Canada. That is the probability; I am not saying that I shall argue so, but it will be argued.

Sir John Forrest.] Without coming to any agreement now, or pledging ourselves, I think there is a general feeling that we would like to do some- thing, but might really be prejudicing what we desire rather than assisting it, if while we are here on our account, without consulting our colleagues or Parliament, we came to some definite opinion, it might prejudice it very much against us, and we might find more difficulty in dealing with the ques tion in that case than if we left it open, not having pledged ourselves.

now,

The Secretary of State.] I quite agree with that, Sir John, and I should not think of pressing you to do what you did not do voluntarily. I think it must remain where it is; but as regards the proposal for an inquiry, we have a saying here that commissions are appointed invariably to delay subjects, unless they are appointed with a definite reference to make and carry out a particular scheme; but when they are merely commissions to inquire, the

only effect is to delay practically dealing with the subject, and I think that would be the case here. I am quite sure that you are unaware how much information there is already upon the subject at the Board of Trade; we have had report after report upon this subject of these relations, and I do not think that there is anything whatever that we can learn that we do not know already.

Sir George Turner.] Could they make any suggestion at all which would help us out of our difficulty, that we shall be challenged when we make this proposal of its being all one-sided ?

You have got a duty we Mr. Reid.] Just consider that for one moment. will say of 30 per cent. upon a large number of British products. Britain accepts and buys your wool and admits it free of duty altogether.

Sir George Turner.] It does that to the whole of the world.

Mr. Reid.] That is perfectly true, but this is a question not between you and England but between England and foreign nations entirely, mind you, entirely, or nearly almost so; when you are discussing the question of imports you are discussing not an Australian question but a question between British and foreign imports. Of course our own Australian imports come under the head of British, so the only question you are discussing on this point of a differential tariff is that of the imports into your Colony of British, and we will say French and German goods, the same as all other foreign nations. The British goods come from a country which admits all your raw staples and in fact the bulk of your exports free of duty; the foreign goods come from countries which do not, which put heavy duties upon your products when you try to cultivate their trade. Now I do say, and press it most strongly, that in a question entirely of imports, and entirely as it affects the foreign maker of things and the British maker of things, there is a difference between the foreigner and the British exporter.

Sir George Turner.] Why do you not make a difference in your Colony ?

Mr. Reid.] Well, I am prepared as I have already said.

The Secretary of State.] He said so.

Sir George Turner.] On three or four items.

r

Mr. Reid.] But I have only got three or four items.

Sir George Turner.] I know, and are you prepared to put a duty on goods coming from foreign countries and allow them to come in from Britain free? because that is practically what you are asking us to do.

Mr. Reid.] Have I not done this, Sir George? it is merely a matter of doing something with reference to Great Britain. I have already removed all our duties on the thousand and one articles of British exports.

Sir George Turner.] Great Britain is in no better position with you than she is with us; she has to compete against the rest of the world as with you.

Mr. Reid.] That is a startling proposition.

Sir George Turner.] Except-

Mr. Reid.] And yet Great Britain would be perfectly satisfied, and every Free Trader it possesses, if you would do what we have done, so that there must be a difference. To say that there is no difference between taxing imports 30 per cent, and not taxing them at all is absurd.

Sir George Turner.] I did not say that there is no difference; you have misconstrued what I said. As between Britain and foreign nations, Britain is no better off with you than she is with us, because our duties are just the same

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