CO885-(26N14) — Page 149

741 17400885/26

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COFFINIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO

1:

8

17 November, 1919.]

COLONIAL MEDICAL SERVICES COMMITTEE,

MR. Joseph Anthur Pickres, M.B., B.S. (London), &c.

184. Chairman: Is there any wish for change in the titles of these posts now, do you think?--I have not heard it proposed or suggested by any one.

185. Sir Humphry Rolleston: There is no desire to have uniform?-Only a certain few; a few would prefer uniform, and, of course, as regards expense it would be cheaper.

186. Mr. Fiddian: There is a certain uniform you can wear, if you like, now; a West African uniform? -There was something; I have not heard anything of it for a long time.

187. It is not popular?—I have not seen it worn by M.O.'s for a long time.

188. Khaki is worn in the ordinary sort of way?

Oh yes, frequently khaki.

[Continued.

Sir James Fowler: Uniform was discussed at the Departmental Committee, and it appears that a good many officers objected to wear uniform.

Chairman: And a good many were not aware that they were entitled to wear it.

Sir James Fowler: Others raised the point about wearing uniform at the reception of the newly- arrived Governor.

189. Chairman: As a matter of fact, at the recop tion of the newly-arrived Governor, the persons present to represent the Medical Department would usually be very high officials?—Oh, yes.

190. At Lagos, for instance, they would wear the uniform appropriate to their rank?-Yes.

We are much obliged to you.

(The Witness withdrew.)

(Adjourned till Monday next, the Hth November, 1919, ai 3 p.m.)

SIR

SECOND

DAY,

Monday, 24th November, 1919.

PREBANT:

SIE WALTER EGERTON, K.C.M.G. (Chairman).

HARRY VERNEY,

Dirut.-COLONEL

Bt., D.S.O.

SHOKON REAR-ADMIRAL SIR HUMPHRY D.

ROLLESTON, K.C.B., M.D., F.R.C.P.

LIBUT.-COLONEL SIR JAMES KINGSTON FOWLER, K.C.V.O., C.M.G., M.D., D.Sc., F.R.CP., R.A.M.C. (T.).

MR. T. HOOD, C.M.G., M.R.C.S., L.R.C.P. Ma. A. FIDDIAN.

MR. J. E. W. FLOOD (Secretary). Dr. JOHN CURRIs, called in and examined.

191. Chairman: You are senior medical officer in Northern Nigeria?—Yes, Sir.

199. You began your career in the Colonial Service in Southern Nigeria?-In Lagos Colony.

199. When was that?-In 1904.

194. And between going to your present post and Southern Nigeria, you went to East Africa?-My first service was in Lagos Colony, then in Southern Nigeria, and then I went to Northern Nigeria; from Northern Nigeria I went to East Africa.

195. Which part of East Africa?—I went first to Entebbe and then to Mwanza to the south of the Lake.

196. That is Uganda?—Yos, Uganda, and then to the South of the Lake to German East Africa.

197. You have had a good deal of experience of Africa and the Tropics?--Yee.

198. I think you have had a draft list of the head. ings under which evidence of Witnesses is desired. Could you give a brief general explanation of the organisation of the Medical and Sanitary Services of Nigeria now?--Yes, I think I could, Sir; wəli 1 have not been there, of course, since 1917.

199. You have been on War service?--I have been on War service, but, in those days the Medical and Sanitary Services in Nigeria were under the contral of the Director. He had a principal medical officer for the Southern province of Nigeria, and one for the Northern province; he also had a senior sanitary officer for the Southern province, and cne for the Northern. The principal medical officer had bin staff which dealt principally with station and district work, as apart from the purely sanitary work, although of course, very often at some stations he bad to do both. The senior sanitary officer had charge of the matters more particularly from a sanitary point of view. The medical officers below the rank of Principal Medical Officer were Deputy Principal Medical Officers, Provincial Medical Offi- cers, Senior Medical Officers, Medical Officers first grade and Medical Officers second grade, The Senior Sanitary Officer has his staff of sanitary officers. The Principal Medical Officers were mostly concerned with administrative medical work, the other members of the staff with the professional side. The senior sanitary officers administered the sanitary part, and the sanitary officers did the more practical part of

the work.

200. The Nigerian service is recruited entirely by appointment from England, is it not?--Yes, Sir; the European staff is appointed by the Secretary of State. The subordinate staff are native.

201. They are native? They are native.

202. Do you think the native elenients could be in- creased, or not with advantage?—I think the Native of Africa is capable of doing a great deal more than perhaps he is allowed to do; that is my experience. I do not think that any native would make such a satisfactory officer sa a European, but there are cer- tain posts, I think, in certain districts which could be filled by a native medical officer; I think he would be capable of filling them.

203. If you had natives would you train them in a local Medical school, or would you let them come home to England? They would have to come home to England at present.

204. Would you give them appointmonts on the same footing as Europeans, or would they be quite a separate serviceP-A subordinate service at present.

205. Do you not think if they came home to England, and qualified in England, they would be discontented if when they went out they were not put on the same footing as Europeans?—I think very likely they would.

206. Yet you think it preferable to train them in England? We have not opportunities of training them out there, Sir.

207. I know you have not, but they might be created, might they not? Yes, I think they might be.

208. In Hong Kong, they have a local medical school, and in the Straits too, I think?—I think it is quite possible if one had a very busy centre they might be trained.

202. Would you put them in posts where they would have to attend on Europeans as well as natives?__] think it depends on the size of the post. A post, for example, like Epe I think could be run by a native medical officer.

210. You mean posts where there are only two or three Europeans? Yes.

211. And all the others are antives?—Yes.

212. It is unnecessary to have a European medical officer just for those two or three Europeans? Well, I do not say that; you have rather got me in a corner; I would much prefer to have a European medical officer, because the work would really be better done, but if you are busy the native could do it.

219. Would you pay them less, and therefore the Government would have more men? I do not think we have yet arrived at the stage when they should be put quite on an equality, Sir.

214. Do you consider the conditions of service, salary, private practice, leave, pension, sto., are

24 November, 1919.]

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.

DR. JOHN CURRIE,

generally satisfactory in Nigeria now?--Well, not with the rise in prices and the depreciation in the value of money; certainly not.

215. Had you left Nigeria before the position of medical officers was improved? No, I left in 1917 to go to East Africa. I am speaking now of the im- mense depreciation of the value of money; our salary is only worth half what it was.

216. And you think further improvement is re- quired P—I am sure of it.

217. What amendments would you suggest P—As far as Nigeria is concerned?

218. I think we might speak of West Africa, might we not? The Services in the various Colonies have been more or less affiliated? Well, we must have an increase of salary, and that increase of salary must be extended to the pensions and to the gratuities.

219. Do you think the gratuity is good? Do not

look

at it from personal point of view, but generally from the point of view of the Service. You are becoming now rather a senior medical officer; do you like the idea of your best men going away after a short time of service?--I do not think they do go away; it does not encourage a man to remain a very short time, because he cannot get that gratuity until he has been nine years in the Service. 220 Then, after nine years, is he not just at his best? He ought to be most useful to the Service then, but I really do not know how many men have left the Service at that particular age in their ser- vice; I do not think very many have; I do not remember any.

Secretary: Very few since I took over the work. Sir Harry Verney: Two or three is the outside. 221. Mr. Fiddian: About half-a-dozen, I should think, is the whole thing? That has been going for many years.

232. Chairman: If very few take advantage of it, is it worth while offering it? Yes, because, you see, I am not pensionable after 9 or 12 years' service, but if I die after having done 12 years' service, my next of kin gets my £1,200.

223. It is always dormant there?-. It is always dormant; you can take it at any time.

224. If you die?—Yes.

225. Otherwise, then salary and pension prospects. Do you think the Service needs improvement in any way? How are quarters now?-- It depends on where you are, Sir. The ordinary officers' quarters want improvement; they are not so good as the Medical officers' quarters, and those are not all that could be desired. They have improved very greatly during my service and are fairly good generally.

226. Is there any other point that you think re- quires attention to make the Service more attractive? As far as I personally can see, I think if our pay were made equivalent to what it was before the war we should not have very much to grumble about.

227. Ta the Service generally contented, do you think? It is hardly fair to ask me that question, because I have not been there since 1917.

228. When you left was it?--I did not hear much grumbling then.

229. Do you think the type of medical officer that was being recruited when you left satisfactory the new comers?-All the new men that I met, I think f can say, without exception, were energetic and cap- able, and I think they were very excellent men for the Service, very excellent indeed. I did not strike anyone who was an undesirable, either professionally or otherwise,

290. And in East Africa, did you find the same?-- I found a very nice type of man, an extremely nico type of man, quito as nice as you have on the West Coast.

231. How do you think conditions in East Africa compare with the West-I would not go to East Africa for anything.

The place is 232. Why? For various reasons. understaffed; the people have been tricked out there; it is an unhealthy climate, and they are under. paid.

233 They think they are going to a healthy climate? And they are not. There is not very much to choose between that and West Africa. There is a

26248

125

9

[Continued.

very nice, beautiful spot in the Highlands, but that is only a very small portion of the Colony.

234. You say they are underpaid?--Well, I do not know whether anything has been done recently in the matter of their pay, but certainly they ought to be on exactly the same footing as regards pay and everything else as the West African staff. They deserve it; their work is good, such work as they can do, considering their small numbers.

235. How did you find the cost of living compares there?

Perhaps you can hardly say, because you went there in an exceptional time; but pay has to have some relation to the cost of living, has it not?... The cost of living in Nigeria varies tremendously.

296. According to where one is?-According to where you are. Take Calabar, for example. I know when I was stationed at Calabar, if I could get an African chicken for 2s. 9d. I was lucky, but in Zaria I could get them for 3d. And you could not get egga in Calabar; you expect your buy to bring you back five or six for a penny in Zaria. And the same thing, I think, holds good in East Africa; in some places the living is much cheaper.

237. As far as life goes, are conditions in East Africa better than in West Africa? You know the sort of bush station a man has to live at in West Africu?Yes.

238. In East Africa, are the conditions better at an ordinary bush station, ar much about the same?-

Perhaps I have not the right to speak about that; I was stationed for two months at a place called Mbale in the Eastern province of Uganda; I have been at Entebbe; the rest of my time was spent down at Mwanza on Lake Victoria. The quarters I had there were filthy beyond description. We had a tennis court there; we spent much money in trying to get it right. We did eventually get it right, and that was all we had in the way of amusement. We had not the time to go out shooting, though there is plenty of shooting, I believe.

239. The conditions were not normal? They were not normal; the comparison is hardly fair.

240. The medical services of the different Weat African Colonies are not quite amalgamated, but they are affiliated?-They are affiliated.

241. Do you think a closer union could be effected with advantage ?-To the West African!

242. Yes I do not see what advantage would

accrue.

243. You think the present arrangements are quite satisfactory ?-One may move from one Colony to another on promotion; very likely one has done so, and I believe it is possible to effect an exchange by agreement from one Colony to another.

244. And you think that is better than the former system under which each Colony's service was quite separate?—I do not think each Colony's service could be quite separate.

245. It has been proposed that there should be one general Colonial Medical Service for all the Crown Colonies; do you think that would be advantageous; do you see any difficulties? I do not think that would do at all. I think you could have a tropical African service, the Eastern service, and Weat Indian service; but I do not think you could have them all lumped up together.

•

do

248. For any particular reasons?-Well,, we not want the West Indians over there, for one thing. 247. Mr. Fiddian: You mean white or black West Indians? Well, they are mostly mixed, are they not P I think we had better be without them.

248. Chairman: Do many of your medical officers in Nigeria learn anything of the languages of the stations P-I think you will find that every man in the northern province can speak Hausa, which I think there is no difficulty in learning; in fact, I am sure it would be a very good thing to make every medical officer learn a language.

In Some have done it. spite of obstruction put in my way at headquarters at Lagos, I did it, and I think that no gratuity should be given for it; I think it should be made a line qua

non.

B