CO885-(23-24) — Page 560

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference :-

C.O. 885

24 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO

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Were not you very vague in what you and Mr. Jones said to Mr. Hetherington !— I should not say so at all.

Re-examined by Mr. CoмYNs Carr.

You made it quite clear to him that day that you were there to discourage emi- gration to the Argentine-Exactly. There is just one thing, Sir John, I might explain. I think there is a false impression on your mind about that pamphlet of ours on the Argentine.

The MAGISTRATE: With regard to the issue of these pamphlets?

The WITNESS: Yes. The simple fact is this. This particular pamphlet we have been considering, not in connection with this particular case in any way, but certainly it has been considered in connection with the general trouble we have had over the Argentine. We do not see any objection to the pamphlet as it stands, but it has been decided that a whole pamphlet in relation to the Argentine alone is un- necessary. We issue a pamphlet in regard to many countries and the Colonies, and it has been decided it is unnecessary to have in future a pamphlet in relation to the Argentine only. It will be included in the pamphlet dealing with the whole of South America.

I understand in your opinion there is nothing calculated to mislead a person reading that pamphlet with regard to the Argentine--I think I should go a little too far if I said that.

Then you mean there is something in the pamphlet which might mislead ?—J think the Argentine law is a thing calculated to mislead.

I want the answer to that simple question. Do you think there is anything which might mislead - Yes, it might.

You do not think, under the circumstances, it would be better to withdraw it at once ?---We could not do that because we have got to get our information up to date. I mean if you think there is anything calculated to mislead, could not the pamphlet be withdrawn at once?-It is rather a difficult question to answer. think it is arguable that it might mislead. That is about as far as I will go. know the position.

T You

I quite understand your attitude is that anybody reading it would see at once what the dangers are?--It is just possible it might mislead. To that I will say yes, but I do not think it is at all likely to mislead.

Mr. COMYNS CARR: The great trouble is apparently that they never read it; at any rate as far as the persons in this case are concerned.

Yes.

FREDERICK JAMES OVERTON, sworn.

Examined by Mr. COMYNS CARR.

You live at 3, Dacre Chambers, Strutton Ground?—Yes.

Are you a painter and paper-hanger?—Yes.

In September last year, was there a strike in your trade?--Yes.

In consequence of that did you make enquiries about emigrating?—Yes.

Had you seen Mr. Hetherington's advertisement in the News of the World"?—

In consequence of that, did you call at his office ?-Yes.

Did you enquire about emigrating to any particular place?—Yes. Where?-Australia.

What did he say about that?--He told me the fare there was £18.

Was that too much for you?--Yes. I could not pay it.

Then did you ask him about Canada ?—Yes.

What did he say?—He said there was no prospect in Canada till this year, about May.

Did he suggest your going anywhere else?—I asked him if he knew of any other place, and he said Buenos Ayres offered a good opening. I did not know where Buenos Ayres was, I am sorry to say.

Did he explain to you?—Yes.

Did you tell him what your trade was?--Yes.

And did he say anything about the prospects of the building trade there?— Yes. He said there was every prospect.

And with regard to the railways?-Yes. He said on the railways all the best jobs was held by Englishmen, and I concluded then that Englishmen were preferred.

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Did he tell you about the Emigrant's Hotel -Yes. He said I should be kept for 5 days free of charge and be found work by the Government.

And did he show you some of these pamphlets —Yes. That is one of them. Did you look at the one about the wages?-Yes, I did. Did you make a remark to him about that?—Yes.

What was that—It said something about 34 dollars a day. Are the words in that little white pamphlet that you say about the

It has got 34

wages

?

Yes.

Which page is it?—It is headed " Allied Trades," I think it is. dollars a day on it.

It does not much matter about finding it. What did you say to him?-It was not Mr. Hetherington. It was Mr. Hetherington's assistant I spoke to about this wage. It was not Mr. Hetherington. It was the other gentleman who was in the office.

Was Mr. Hetherington there when you spoke to the assistant?—Yes. Did he hear what the assistant said?-He ought to have done.

Tell me what you said?—I had seen him before that.

First of all did you work out how much three dollars and a half a day would come to ?—Yes.

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What does it come to ?-About 6s.

What did you tell him about it ?—I said, " This is not much, 34 dollars a day. "I do not see any prospect going out there. I can earn 7s. 6d. in London; when

my trade is going on and I am at work, I can earn 7s. 6d. to 10s. a day."

What did he say about that?-He said, "This is the lowest rate; you will get

moré."

And you say Mr. Hetherington could hear that ?--Yes.

Did you pay him your money, £7, altogether?—Yes.

And did you go out on the " Hollandia" on the 9th October ?—Yes. Did you ask Mr. Hetherington about taking money with you—Yes.

I asked

if it was necessary to have so much, because that was the question I asked about Canada I should have to have so much to land at Canada at that time of year.

It was a question of requiring it to land ?--Yes, landing money. And he told you what? That it was not necessary.

You went out on the same ship with Mr. White and Mr. Webb, who have been called?--Yes.

On arrival there, did you go to the Labour Exchange constantly?—Yes, con- stantly.

Did you go first when you arrived?--I had to find my way there.

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Did you find a man who spoke English there when you arrived?—No. Did you go back again ?—No, I simply saw up over the top " Hotel de Emigrant and I went in and saw a man and showed him my passport, and he gave me a little ticket with the 1st November printed on it.

That is what I am asking you about. After you got to the Emigrants' Hotel, did you go on the following day to the Labour Bureau ?—Yes

Did you ask for a job?-We went in and he came up and said, English?" We

said "Yes," and he said, "Come back in the afternoon when the man is here who

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can speak English." We went back in the afternoon and the same thing happened,

and also the next morning, and so it kept on day after day, and there was never no attempt made to find us work.

Did you afterwards complain to the British Consul?—Yes.

How long did this go on? How long were you there?-Three or four weeks,

I think. I could not tell you the date I came home, but I could tell you the ship.

At the end of that time, had you any money left?-I had no money when I arrived I am sorry to say. I had every ambition to start work and thought I should have done some work.

Yes.

Just to take it shortly, did you apply to the British Consul?—Yes. And did he give you several recommendations to various ships?—Yes. And ultimately did you work your passage back on the Highland Brae"?—

You got a painting job first on the ship?—Yes.

And then you acted as Assistant Steward ?—Yes.

Cross-examined by Mr. RAEBURN.

I do not understand quite what Mr. Hetherington's assistant was supposed to have told you about wages Did you tell him what you were?—Yes.