CO885-(23-24) — Page 554

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference :-

mminumimC.O. 885

24 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO

Yes.

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Cross-examined by Mr. RAEBURN.

You saw this pamphlet, whatever my friend calls it, and you know it well?

Did you notice the statements here about the State Labour Bureau ?-I noticed a statement that work was found, and that there was free board and lodgings when you arrived.

Mr. MALCOLM LUDLOW JONES, Sworn.

Examined by Mr. COмYNS CARR.

Your name is Malcolm Ludlow Jones, and you are Chief Clerk in the Emigrants' Information Office?-That is so.

Is that a Government Office established for the purpose of supplying information to people desiring to emigrate?-Quite right.

And is it part of your duty to collect information both with regard to British Colonies and foreign countries to which you find emigration is taking place?--Quite right.

In the course of your duty do you receive reports from the British Consuls in various foreign countries, and in particular have you to receive reports from the British Consul in Buenos Ayres ?-We do not receive the report direct. I should like you to ask that question from the Chairman of our Committee, who is in Court here.

I will call him. I cannot ask you about the contents of them. Do the reports

of the British Consuls come before you in the course of your duties?—Yes.

In consequence of those reports did your Committee in April of 1912 issue a warning notice with regard to emigration to the Argentine?—The warning in April was issued because there were signs of activity on this side with regard to the taking of people to the Argentine.

The CLERK: Did they issue a warning notice.

Yes, that is quite right.

To people contemplating going to the Argentine?—Yes.

Mr. COMYNS CARR: Have you got a copy of it with you?—I have.

Will you produce it just to identify it. (Same handed.) Generally did you circulate that to a large number of newspapers through the Press Associations, and in other ways?--Yes, nearly 1,600.

I read this in opening :-

"In view of enquiries received as to emigration to the Argentine Republic, the Emigrants' Information Office desire to warn intending emigrants that they will find in that country laws, language, climate, money, and conditions of life and work all differing from those to which they have been accustomed. These disadvantages are of special importance in the case of unskilled emigrants, but they are a serious handicap to any emigrant going out in search of employment."

Did that produce the desired result. Did the complaints cease?—Not entirely. They were lessening to a certain extent, but they were not stopped.

In consequence of that did your Committee issue a further warning on the 9th September ?—Yes.

way

I will put in a copy of that. (Copy handed.) Was that circulated in the same ?-Yes.

"Since the warning issued by the Emigrants' Information Office in April, information has reached the Committee from various quarters with regard to unemployment and consequent destitution among immigrants in the Argentine Republic. Persons arriving in the Argentine, especially clerks and unskilled labourers, without a competent knowledge of Spanish or with insufficient funds, are likely to find themselves in a serious position, and intending immigrants are strongly advised to communicate with the Emigrants' Information Office, 31, Broadway, Westminster, S.W., before booking their passages."

After the issue of that warning did you find that complaints continued?-Yes, still. Did you receive indirectly from the British Consul a document dated the 1st December, 1912?-If that is the petition signed by a number of emigrants I did.

Just look at it to identify it. I must not read the contents of it. Have you got the actual one?-I have not got the actual one; I have a copy of it.

Have you got the copy which you received at that time?

Mr. RAEBURN: This cannot be evidence against my client.

Mr. COмYNS CARR: The contents of it are not evidence, I agree, but the exist- ence of it is evidence.

The MAGISTRATE: He can surely prove the receipt of it.

Mr. RAEBURN: With submission. if this gentleman on information received had warned client I could understand.

my

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The MAGISTRATE: That I quite follow, but at the present moment all Mr. Carr is asking is whether he received a

Mr. COMYNS CARR: That is alper from the Consul.

am asking at present. The MAGISTRATE: He has not the original; it is a copy.

Mr. COMYNS CARR: Is that the copy which you received at that time?—This

is a copy I made from the copy I received at that time.

not.

Have you not the copy which you received at that time with you?—No, I have

It was returned.

After you received the document of which that is a copy did you go, about the 10th January, 1913, to Mr. Hetherington's Office in the Strand?—Yes.

Did Mr. Macnaghten, the Chairman of your Committee, go with you ?--Yes. And did you take that document with you?-Yes.

Did you see this defendant, Mr. Hetherington, there?—Yes.

Did you personally mention anything as to the existence of that document to him?-I told him I had that document in my pocket.

What did you tell him as to the contents of it?—I told him it was a document signed by a number of emigrants who were suffering hardships there.

The CLERK: Did you say where?—Yes.

Where? In the Argentine Republic.

Mr. COMYNS CARR: You told him it was a document signed by a number of emigrants who were suffering hardships in the Argentine Republic?—Yes.

Did you tell him what it had to do with him?-I told him he was mentioned as

the chief offender as booking these people.

In the document you mean?-In the document.

Did you ask him in consequence to do anything?-We asked him not to do some- thing. We asked him not to continue booking these people.

What did he say to that ?-Well, he told me if he did not book them somebody else would.

What did you tell him as to the condition of employment in the Argentine?— I told him that, in spite of the promises held out in these handbooks issued officially from the Consul-General's for the Argentine in London, that the hardship and destí- tution was appalling just then, and there was a large amount of it in the Argentine. Did you discuss the question with him as to the Labour Bureau undertaking to find employment, or did you mention anything about that?—I pointed out there was great distress, as I stated in my last answer.

But I want it in a little more detail?-This interview took place some time ago, and I am keeping to the broad lines of it rather than the smaller details.

Do you remember in the course of conversation his saying anything about those warnings you had issued? He said he could not do any more than show our warn- ings, which he did. That is what he said, I think.

That is all he said about it?—Yes.

Did you see the warning notice there, as a matter of fact?---No.

You did not? No. I should know those warning notices if I saw them at once. Were they, as a matter of fact, issued by you in poster form as well as to news- papers? Yes. That was the warning notice issued in April or May.

The first warning notice?-The first warning notice.

Is that the form. (Same handed.) It is the same warning as the first of those warning notices. I think it is the same, is it not?—No, this is an earlier one.

That is slightly earlier?—Yes.

Mr. COMYNS CARR: I will take that, but I thought that was the one.

Mr. RAEBURN: Let me see that, will you? (Same handed to learned counsel.) Mr. COMYNS CARR: After that interview did you issue a further general warning? -Yes.

At the end of the same month. January, 1913?—Yes.

It is dated the 28th January, 1913.

"Sir, In May, 1912, and again in August, 1912, the Committee of the Emigrants' Information Office found it necessary to issue public warnings to intending emigrants from Great Britain to the Argentine Republic. Unfortunately the reports received by the Committee from official sources show that, in spite of these warnings, a considerable number of British subjects of the class to which the warnings are particularly directed have emigrated to the Argentine Republic, and, having failed to find employment, are now in a state of destitution. There is also reason to believe that unsuitable emigrants are still proceeding from this country to the Argentine. The Committee, therefore, think it necessary to repeat their previous warnings, and they cannot too strongly emphasise the fact that the country does not offer safe openings for British emigrants without capital, and is not one for emigrants of this class. This statement applies with special

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