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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference :-

C.O. 885

21 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO

90

Sir Everard im Thurn pointed out that Mr. Sargant had been prepared not only to write the lectures but to find the illustrative material as well.

The matter was left to the Sub-Committee.

The question of wall-pictures arose on the correspondence with the London County Council.

Lord Meath thought it would be a good thing to secure the good-will of such a body as the Council by meeting their wishes in this matter.

It was pointed out that the difficulty was that Messrs. Nelson might put forward a claim in respect of the specimen plate which they had produced. Sir Charles Lucas proposed a little longer delay to see whether Messrs. Nelson would move.

Sir Everard im Thurn offered to approach a member of the firm personally, but Sir Charles Lucas deprecated this.

After discussion it was decided that before any further steps were taken Sir Everard im Thurn and the Secretary should see a representative of the firm of Long- man's, who had made an offer to undertake the work.

The Sub-Committee reported on the progress of the lectures now in hand. The "Imperial Stations " set had been put into proof and revised, and as soon as the slides were definitely decided upon the book would be issued.

Sir Charles Lucas, Sir Everard im Thurn, and Mr. Mackinder agreed that the lectures were very good.

After some discussion it was decided that the title should be "The Sea Road to the East," with sub-title" Gibraltar to Weihaiwei." The preface would explain that the book had been planned by Mr. Mackinder and revised by Sir Charles Lucas and Sir Everard im Thurn,

Lord Meath withdrew and Sir Philip Hutchins took the Chair.

With regard to the Australasian lectures Sir Charles Lucas said that six of the eight had been supplied by Mr. Sargant, and were under revision.

Mr. Heath informed the Committee that the officers of the Commonwealth Government had approached the Board of Education with regard to a book on Australia which they were anxious to see published for school purposes. They would take no steps in the matter until they heard from the Committee. They would be prepared to assist in the revision of the book and in the supply of material for illustrations. If the lectures proved to be of the kind they wanted it might be possible to arrange for some financial aid. For instance, the Commonwealth Govern ment might pay half the cost of a set of slides for some large education authority.

Mr. Mackinder suggested that, for the purposes of the Australasian lectures, which included New Zealand and the Pacific, a selection might be made from the material at the offices of the Commonwealth, and that a separate book, dealing with Australia alone, might be provided for the Commonwealth Government at their cost.

In this connection Sir Charles Lucas referred to the two lectures on New Zealand, which he himself considered very good, but with which the High Commis- sioner and a member of his staff were not satisfied. Sir Everard im Thurn thought that this dissatisfaction probably arose from the fact that the author had not been in New Zealand. He mentioned the Ceylon lecture, in which points had been omitted which would certainly have been dealt with by a writer who knew the Colony. In the case of that lecture he had been able to remedy some of the defects.

Mr. Mackinder was of opinion that this difficulty could be met by using Mr. Sargant's MS. as a draft in which the points which appealed to the people who knew the country could be inserted before it was cast in its final form.

Sir Charles Lucas undertook to see the Commonwealth officers.

Sir Everard im Thurn reported on his efforts to arrange with Messrs. Newton for the issue of cheaper sets of slides. He read a letter from the firm in which they undertook, if the Committee would forgo the royalty of 124 per cent., to produce the Indian slides at £35 instead of £50. He had tried to obtain an estimate of the price of the slides if made by the dry-plate process, but had not yet succeeded.

The Committee agreed that only a very substantial reduction would be of use and left the matter, as well as the question of arranging for the hire of slides, in the hands of Sir Everard im Thurn.

'It was decided, on the recommendation of Sir Everard im Thurn, that hand- coloured instead of Sanger-Shepherd slides should be used in the sets now in prepara.

tion.

91.

The Committee favourably considered the suggestion, made by Mr. Mackinder, that the illustrations to the lectures should be issued not only as slides but in the form of cards, some coloured and some uncoloured.

This question, together with the application of the London County Council to be allowed to reproduce some of Mr. Fisher's paintings as reward cards, was left to the consideration of the Sub-Committee.

38281

Annexure to No. 144.

MEMORANDUM BY Sir E. IM THURN ON THE PREPARATION OF THE SOUTH AFRICAN LECTURES.

In consequence of what passed at the last meeting of the Visual Instruction Committee, I have been in communication, written and verbal, with Mr. E. B. Sargant, as to whether he would prepare the South African lectures for us.

will be seen that he undertook to append a copy of the correspondence, from which

I

do the work, in co-operation with his wife, on certain conditions, and that, after consulting Sir Charles Lucas and also Mr. Noall, I was able to agree to these condi- tions-with one exception.

The exception is due to Mr. Sargant's request that the Committee should consent to his subsequently publishing, on his own behalf, through Messrs. Longman's firm, a book on South Africa, fuller but more or less on the same lines as the lectures and with some of the same illustrations; and he has verbally explained to me that he purposes to issue a readable" gift-book," with a large number of illustrations and at à price of three or four shillings.

I was till lately unaware, mea culpa, and had consequently not informed Mr. Sargant, that, as has been done in the case of the Indian lectures, already published, and is apparently intended in the cases of the Imperial stations and Australasian lectures, the Committee purposed to allow Mr. Philips to print the lectures only in one edition--which would be illustrated and, after the assignment to the Committee of a number of copies of this print sufficient for sale with the sets of slides, to sell the other copies on his own account as an ordinary school book.

It is, of course, probable that the demand either for Mr. Philips's book or for Mr. Longman's might suffer from the issue of the other. I therefore pointed out to Mr. Sargant our difficulty in complying with this one of his conditions; and though the discussion has throughout been most friendly on both sides, it has not resulted in any solution of the difficulty. Sir Charles Lucas and I have, therefore, thought it right to put the matter before the C'ommittee.

"

Mr. Sargant has now definitely assured me though with obvious and sincere reluctance--that he is not prepared to put together the South African lectures for the Committee unless it is understood that he is to be allowed also to publish his 'gift-book" through the Longman firm; and he moreover says (and here, after careful reconsideration, I am myself personally fully in agreement with him) that he cannot understand what purpose an illustrated edition, such as that of the Indian series, can aptly serve.

The question, therefore, now put to the Committee is whether Mr. Sargant's offer should be accepted with all his conditions or whether we should seek for some other person to do this work for us?

EVERARD IM THURN.

27 November, 1911.

36499/10

No. 145.

i

MESSRS. NEWTON & CO. to VISUAL INSTRUCTION COMMITTEE. (Received December 7, 1911.)

DEAR SIR,

3, Fleet Street, Temple Bar, London,

6th December, 1911. In reply to your queries re price of sets of India slides. These eight lecture sets are, as you know, now supplied in special boxes, com- plete, a number of the slides being coloured, and the rest being made in collodion or collodio-albumen.